Hello Raptorforum! I apologize in advanced if this is the wrong forum or section I posted in. I am new to the ATV forum world.
So we were down in Rocky point, Mx and rented some quads for a few hours (polaris trail blazer 250? and a 330) we had a blast and are now looking to buy a pair of quads for ourselves.
We live in Northern Az so we have wooded trails as well hot desert trails and pretty easy access to sand dunes, and will be taking them down into Mexico to ride while we are down there and the trails there are desert trails with dunes.
I realize this is a Raptor forum and some of you will for sure be partial to thy raptor but bear with me please.:smile
I have watched countless youtube comparisons and videos of like all the sporty quads out there and still can't find a definitive answer (maybe there isn't one)
for her we were looking at:
Raptor 700
Polaris scrambler 850 possibly 1000 if price was right
Can Am renegade 800
and open to suggestions
For me:
I have been looking at almost every 450 sport quad out there and the Honda TRX450 caught my eye as it seems pretty bulletproof and reliable. However, I have wondered over into the Raptor 700 as well as it seems pretty well rounded (I also saw the Honda 700xx, but don't know a lot about it). I like the idea of having a light(er) 450 that I can whip around and go off small jumps with, but am wondering If I will feel under powered out in the open desert and small dunes like in Rocky point. I am 6' 215 pounds by the way
I have experience with quads and dirt bikes, but smaller ones back when I was around 12, my girlfriend has also some experience on quads and 3 wheelers as well. I have heard people claim raptors are not reliable is this true? Also we will probably be keeping them pretty stock at least for a while and will be making them street legal since we live pretty close to some trails
If I have left anything out feel free to ask or suggest something thanks in advance
None of the quads you listed would make my list because they are all way too heavy and way too powerful for their weight.
My "personal" opinion is that there should be NO high powered "heavy" ATV's because they are the one's that KILL. Someone
goes out and buys one of those over powered want-to-be sport 4x4's and tries to drive it like a true Race or Sport Quad and
they wind up with it on their back and dead. The 450 is a Race Machine and the Raptor is a high sport machine, it's right on the 450's tail as far as features go and it's only 17lbs heavier than the 450. The 450's are high strung, high revving motors (they redline higher
than a 2 stroke). The Raptor is a torque monster and it makes it's power down low.
The Raptor isn't a toy though... It needs to be treated with respect and driven the same way. They will accelerate rapidly, easily pull the wheels to the sky and will hit speeds fast enough to get you killed twice over!
I didn't want a full race machine and I wanted a true sport machine so for me the choice was super easy. But I can certainly understand the want to look into all the options out there. As far as Raptor's not being reliable? First I've heard of it! The Raptor has a very long history with many years to shake out any bugs and it's still here while most other sport offerings have dried up and disappeared from the market.
I agree with everyone, only you can evaluate what you and she would feel comfortable with. Don't get a YFZ, to high strung, or a raptor 660, to old. The 700 has a throttle limiting screw, and others may too. Use it till you are ready for more. The Honda may be good for her, just be careful and ALWAYS wear gear, no flip-flops, tank tops or shorts.
Include a few pictures of her so we can better evaluate her needs.
I can't figure out how to multi quote, but this is directed to the two who said she might be better off with the TRX450 over the Raptor 700. I am curious as to the reasoning behind this? From what I gathered the Raptor 700 had a nicer ride and the 450 was more hard on the rider. I do like knowing that raptor has a limiting screw I hadn't known about that. She had an 09 Raptor 700 open because it had a neat white and crimson color combination she liked. I am not too picky on what bike I get (just not really a utility quad fan,maybe if I was back east still) and I am sure whatever our choices end up being that we will switch off riding each others occasionally. How are the manual transmissions if trying to go slow and enjoy the surroundings? I just learned of the KFX700 automatic, but again don't know a whole lot about them.
Also should I steer away from Craigslist and stick to dealers, I would hate to get into somebody elses nightmare. Though I have seen some decent looking prices on there.
when it comes down to it, If i could post the ones we were looking at to get opinions on price that would be great!
Another option was a friend has a 2012 (i think) Artic Cat 700 ATV for sale for 4,000 we were going to test ride it later this week I believe.
Also a question regarding carbs vs EFI. We live around 4750 Ft above sea level but would travel close to sea level sometimes would any problems be presented with either?
The TRX is about 30 pounds lighter, and probably has all the power she'd want. A female friend of mine rides one and loves it. She doesn't want anything heavier or more powerful.
I'm the opposite, I avoid dealers, and prefer craigslist. Once I knew what to look for, I prefer buying from someone who can give me backstory on the machine. How long had it, how often change the oil, what kind of riding did you do with it, etc. I would only buy new from a dealer.
No idea about elevation, I'm only 400 feet about sea level lol.
Let me tell you how much power the Raptor 700 has... I'm one heavy sum bitch (more than 250....) and I can pull out with my Raptor in 1st gear with my hand off the throttle.... Yes it will idle and pull me around... The 700 is a thumper but the nice thing about all that torque is that you can easily ride slow. Honestly I don't
get out of third gear much in the woods because it's so damned fast even in third.
I don't know how the EFI behaves at different altitudes. It's a closed loop system without an O2 Sensor so I'm guessing (without looking
at the sensors in the parts diagrams) that it uses a Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor and hard coded air/fuel tables so it should
be able to adapt to changing elevation without much issue. The real issue with these EFI systems is when you start modding you have
to add in at minumum a fuel controller so you can richen the mixture back up after adding more air flow.
I just ordered exhaust and a ignition/fuel controller and the nice thing about the PC 5 is that I can add an "autotune" onto it at any time
and that gives me an actual wide band 02 sensor.
We run the bikes at 9000'. I have an 06, the wife has an 08. Both 700's. My wife is very comfortable on hers, granted she does not anywhere no how no way go full throttle, but she is comfortable on the bike. That is what matters to me. Even at 30 mph max, whatever. Less fatigue on the bike. To boot we bought it from original owner who was a girl. That bike has had a super easy life and will live forever, lol. Nothing against girls, just the owners of this bike.
I think you are trying to step up from a Beetle to a Fararri just a little too fast. The two bikes you described that you had ridden previously are extremely underpowered as far a atv models go. Unless you really know what the power of a sport quad has and feels like and are completely sure that you can handle that much power, you or your wife, I would not recommend any of the models you have listed. I would look more for a trx400ex or even a 300ex as a good starter bike. These things can do some real damage in the hands of an inexperienced rider, and even an experienced rider for that matter. If it were me, and me and my wife were right were you are a few years ago, I would find a nice cheap pair of used quads on Craig's list, and a good trailer to haul them around on, play with those for a while and then decide if you are ready to ride something with a lot more power.
Both new to quads? All those mentioned are way to much for your girlfriend. If she doesnt have interest in learning a clutch get a 500 grizzley or something similar. I juat prefer yamaha. If a clutch isnt an issue look at the suzuki ltz400 fantastic machine and better than the 350 raptor in every way. I just got one for my girlfriend and its not lacking in power and handles great. Look for an 07 or newer. The 03 and 04 has frame issues and the 05 and 06 had a recall that is simple and if done are great machines. In 05 they upgraded the shocks in 09 they went to EFI. The honda 400ex is a great trail machine as well just not on par with the ltz. Being it is air cooled with less horse power. Seriously you will be much much happier on a raptor than any 450 for trail riding. Geared better and tons of power. I ride an 05 660 however the 700s have better shocks and i do like efi. Just my humble opinion. In all honesty an ltz400 would fit the bill perfectly for both of you. Plenty of power great shocks and handling. Keep us updated
The Raptor, or any other FI system will self adjust for altitude. It's a great system. Even with a add on fuel controller. I ride from sea level to around 4000ft.
The Raptor is not a good woods bike. Instant throttle response will cause problems for a beginner. Even using the limiter screw, it only works for mid to high RPMs.
Craigslist is a good place to find bikes. Have a friend with some mechanical ability go with you.
I don't know if I agree with you on the raptors EFI system adjusting for altitude. It isn't a system like a car that has an oxygen sensor and other systems in the intake side that measure oxygen content and make adjustments to the afr as you drive. I live in Phoenix which is almost at sea level and when I ride up were he lives in Prescott which is up in the mountains it runs like a dog and is extremely underpowered on the top end. Unless you had a custom map made for both areas, I just don't see the motor running how it should be. And even with the PC5 with auto tune, I don't think that system can make "Enough" adjustments to the map to compensate for that high of elevation. If it were me, I would run a carbed model quad and jet it accordingly to the area I'm going to be riding.
A bone stock Raptor EFI system runs a T-BAP sensor to measure the Temperature and Barometric Absolute Pressure coupled with a Speed Sensor, Throttle Position Sensor, Crank Sensor and Engine Temp Sensors. It runs hard coded Air and Fuel tables in the ECU and it should be more than able to adjust for a variation of altitudes. But since it's a closed loop system that's why it cannot adjust for aftermarket goodies. That's why the piggyback ECU units exist, to add more pulse width modulation to the fuel injector to correct for lean conditions. Or if you go the route of adding a Wide Band 02 Sensor then you have a truly open system able to adjust on the fly without having to use chiseled in stone, maps.
No matter what though.. Any and all non Forced Induction Engines will lose a metric ass-ton of horsepower at high elevation, that's just the way it is!
I was just in ur boat. I had went to a family members house rode some quad fell in love and thought it would b a great thing me and my lady could share. I bought a 2015 raptor and love everything about it. She bought a 2004 dvx 400 low hours for 2500 and she loves it to death. I think any of thos older dvx 400, ltz 400 or kawasaki 400 r all great bikes cheap reliable good power to weight. They have reverse and there light enough that u can just pick it up and turn it right around on a sticky trail. Also there very proven and tons of aftermarket parts if u start to hop them up.
I would really look at ur list and just see how much they all weight. Some of thos weight like 800 pounds.. I'd have a really hard time flipping that thing back over and I'm a pretty large guy. Idk if u know other people who have some of these quads bUT take em for a test ride find what speaks to u and feels comfortable. Good luck with ur search. Where do u live? If u nor cal I'd b more than happy to show u guys what we have.
Thank you guys all for the replies, I have read every single one of them. I just haven't had a lot of time to reply back to them. I will definitely keep you all posted on what we end up doing. There are so many choices out there it's almost mind boggling. I think we will just have to find a place that rents what we are interested in and judge by riding them. I can't imagine making a decision without riding them will be hard, or I might just pick the best deal I can find that we like. We saw her sister in laws 07 Sportsman 450 and we also looked at his 07 Artic Cat 700 which looked like new and has super low hours and I believe he only wanted like 2300 for it which seemed good to me (like if she bought it and didnt like it could easily re sell it seemed). My girlfriend likes the artic cat, but I personally didn't because it just seemed too bulky. I came across a Polaris Outlaw 525 IRS and it looks like a pretty well rounded light weight quad, but to me right now they all seem like a toss up. I still am digging on the raptors too. I would just hate to get something like that and her get a utility style quad and regret it or vice versa.
I would suggest a 450 or smaller bike for your girlfriend for all the reasons you mentioned, smaller, lighter, more nimble/easier to maneuver. The 700 is more of a "cushy" ride, but it's weight and height (peg to seat height) make it more difficult to move around. The 700 is also flat out faster than a 450. The 400cc bikes are all great choices as well, just not as powerful.
For these reasons and just personal preference, my girlfriend rides the yfz450 while I ride the raptors.
Update, my girl has decided she doesn't want a quad and instead wants a sxs or a Polaris ACE because they have steering wheels & pedal controls. I don't know if shes dead set on one, but we shall see.I also don't know how I feel about it because they seem kind of high maintenance. I'm leaning 90% of the way towards the Raptor 700 for myself. The more I see them the more I like them. Was at the power sports shop and she liked the TRX 450 , but thought her hands would start hurting because the clutch was pretty stiff feeling, and she doesn't like the thumb throttle for the same reasons (she had to have hand surgery on her tendons and joints).
Ur controls can be upgraded and changed. Like a hydraulic clutch which makes it feel buttery smooth and twist throttle to take away from the thumb throttle. These bike r so popular there r tons of company's trying to fix these problems. I liked the 400 Sq for a long time... it was all about power to weight. The feeling of being g balanced and have cotrolled but still have all that power on tap that u need to get out of any sticky situation. Quick reving power at that. I promise u will not b displease from Hondas 450 or suzuki 400. Just my 2 cc. I would look at a bike u might want. Then look for parts that make hers fit her perfectly. SORRY IT'S LATE FOR ME. hope all is well
I agree the clutch pull can be changed. There are levers that have adjustable leverage. But, never, ever, ever put a twist throttle on a quad. Especially for a new rider, and female. Don't believe me, check u tube for "quad accidents with twist throttles".
Everyone has their own deal and opinion, which many have been shared here. Unless you are rock crawling, the Raptor is the best all around quad. Not much heavier than the 450s but much nicer ride and more power, and just as important, more usable power.
For the GF. Mine has a Raptor as her quad. I've ridden (and she has as well) 400ex, ltz/kfx400, the 450s, can am 800, etc. And the Raptor is by far the quad she is the most comfortable with. We mostly ride dunes and she is light enough, just put it in third gear and it will take her anywhere she wants.
As an added wrinkle... . my brother has a kfx700 for his 60 year old wife. She can't shift, so it's perfect for her. Tons of power but the quad is stable enough she won't get herself into trouble. I would suggest that over a 450. I honestly don't know of any GF in my circle that would be happy with a 450, and a couple have had them. They are just not as soft, rougher seat, more shifting and more work to ride.
But it all depends on your use. Me personally? I wouldn't go the sxs route. They are under powered and weigh too much. But many people enjoy them.
Interesting topic because I just bought two 07,700r's for myself and the wife. I had a Banshee years ago so I was use to the power. I was concerned also for the wife at first about to much power but she rode her's for the first time yesterday after I went thru the basics and she did very good. I had her stay in first gear until she got the hang of the clutch and braking.When I felt comfortable I had her go into second and all I heard was a big wow. I think she will do fine. You have to have common sense and respect the machine and she does. I just read all the post and find all this info very informative but its to late for me in a good way.
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