No spark, stator resistance 1.3ohm? - Yamaha Raptor Forum
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-15-2016, 09:31 AM Thread Starter
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No spark, stator resistance 1.3ohm?

The engine was apart for a year, sitting in boxes, and ive just put it back together following the service manual. Before it was taken apart the timing chain snapped, apart from that it was fine, no problems charging the battery, started well etc....

heres a list of things ive checked so far from reading the sticky and a ton of other threads,
  • Unplugging rectifier, no spark plugged in or not, left it unplugged for the rest
  • New spark plug
  • Grounds seem ok, metal on metal contact, no corrosion, i cleaned up the coil contacts anyway
  • All switches are working correctly, lights work
  • Orange wire from cdi is intact, checked continuity with meter
  • The reverse limiter is deleted i think, there is a wire running from the positive terminal to a terminal below the sprocket.
  • There was a kill switch that broke the orange wire before the coil but has since been removed and orange wire rejoined
  • Checked the resistances for the coil and stator, pick up, all were within spec except the three white wires coming from the stator, spec is 0.43 ~ 0.65 Ω i got 1.3 for all three combinations, there was also continuity for all three combinations, dont know if there is meant to be.
  • The flywheel magnets are strong, it would pull the stator cover onto the flywheel if you let go.
  • The crank position sensor is as close as possible to the "bump"
  • The stator is clean, no visible damage but i haven't taken it off to look at back
  • The cdi is aftermarket of unknown brand
  • connections are ok, not pristine but contacts are shiny and exposed
  • The red wire is cut, the accompanying wire is also cut (forget the colour)
  • The battery im using just to turn it over is off a small car, could this affect things? sold my actual battery in a chinese buggy

There was the tiniest, and i mean tiniest of sparks between the plug and ground at the start, less than 0.1mm, and i cant see them now.
I know only an oscilloscope could see the pulse, but the meter picked up a volt or two from the plug cap when turning over, so something is happening, but not much.

So is the out of spec resistance enough to indicate a bad stator? Its difficult to get raptor parts where i am, so if it needs a stator would a cheap nasty china stator from "caltric" do? or try and get one of a breaker. I cannot afford a refurbed or new oem, $60 or less.

Any other checks i can do? i have a cheapo multimeter here.
Thanks for reading


Last edited by c.q; 05-15-2016 at 09:33 AM.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-20-2016, 01:36 AM
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No - your meter can't accurately measure down at the less than 1 ohm area, so 1) they're fine and 2) they're the battery charge windings, so have nothing to do with generating spark.

Your battery is fine, if you can crank the engine over at a decent speed with it, all else should work.

Since you have an aftermarket CDI, our help ends there... you need to see if you can swap it out with a stocker. I've said in the past that putting a kill switch on the orange wire runs a risk of damaging the CDI - it is possible that this has happened in your case.

Either swap CDI (make sure to get proper year - 01 or 02+) or find somebody with an O-scope - that will allow you to look at the pulses that make everything work properly.

'01 660 Raptor, Burgard +2+1 arms, YFZ Shocks, LSR anti-vibe, CTR pipe, jetted, K&N
'01 Polaris Scrambler 400, K&N
'02 Honda 400ex, Big Gun pipe, jetted, K&N, Lonestar +2 A-arms, Lonestar anti-vibe
'04 Suzuki LTZ400
'16 RZR XP4 1000 Turbo
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-20-2016, 04:59 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadManiac View Post
No - your meter can't accurately measure down at the less than 1 ohm area, so 1) they're fine and 2) they're the battery charge windings, so have nothing to do with generating spark.

Your battery is fine, if you can crank the engine over at a decent speed with it, all else should work.

Since you have an aftermarket CDI, our help ends there... you need to see if you can swap it out with a stocker. I've said in the past that putting a kill switch on the orange wire runs a risk of damaging the CDI - it is possible that this has happened in your case.

Either swap CDI (make sure to get proper year - 01 or 02+) or find somebody with an O-scope - that will allow you to look at the pulses that make everything work properly.
Ok I'll try and find a cdi, the cdi that's on it is probably a cheap replica of the stock one as theres no markings or stickers. It was sold as a "race cdi" when I bought it.

I tried yesterday to put the plug gap to about 0.4 mm and got a constant but again extremely small spark, not enough to fire at all, I bought a used coil, stator and rectifier that were "tested" but who knows if they were, they should be here soon so I can swap them out. I'll test the resistance on them when I get them.

Also I decided to cut off the last few inches of the orange and black wire that goes to the coil, and found that even a few inches back the wire in the orange one was black, it didn't seem burnt but there was a black coating of whatever or the strands. I scraped it of the strands to expose the metal and redid the contacts to the coil, didn't make a difference. Would it be worth putting a new orange wire in?

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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-24-2016, 12:09 AM
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If you have spark (i don't care how weak it looks), you should have running, at least at low RPM... if you really have fuel and you have compression - have you tried starting fluid?

'01 660 Raptor, Burgard +2+1 arms, YFZ Shocks, LSR anti-vibe, CTR pipe, jetted, K&N
'01 Polaris Scrambler 400, K&N
'02 Honda 400ex, Big Gun pipe, jetted, K&N, Lonestar +2 A-arms, Lonestar anti-vibe
'04 Suzuki LTZ400
'16 RZR XP4 1000 Turbo
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-31-2016, 11:32 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadManiac View Post
If you have spark (i don't care how weak it looks), you should have running, at least at low RPM... if you really have fuel and you have compression - have you tried starting fluid?
sorry for late reply, been busy with exams.

havent tried starting fluid no, compression test got about 115psi, rings arent seated yet, its getting fuel no problem, can see the mist come out of spark plug hole, strong smell of petrol, (before i turned the fuel off) i havent messed with carbs since it was running i dont think.

I turned it over trying to start before with the small spark and there wasnt even a cough.

So the stator and coil came yesterday, everything was in spec so swapped them out, apart from the plug boot, so put my other one on and again just a tiny little spark, can only jump across about 0.2mm with or without plug boot. Put the meter in the boot and got consistent 1.2 ac volts so something is happening, i held onto the plug and the ground and didnt feel a thing while turning over.

Then i tried some more continuity tests which i should've done sooner, as the orange wire has continuity to the frame, as does a few other wires coming from the middle cdi plug, but only when plugged in, disconnect the middle plug and orange wire does not ground.

So to me it seems the cdi's at fault, shouldn't the orange wire be separated from the ground until the plug tip?, maybe putting the heavy battery charger on it fried it

As before im near broke, so it'll be a breakers cdi, or a new Chinese one, anybody had any success with the cheap $50 ones? parts where i am are usually 4x the price of u.s stuff when it comes to quads breaking.

thanks for the help so far also

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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-01-2016, 01:46 AM
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Orange wire will Ohm to ground through the coil... measure the orange wire's connector on the coil to ground (with orange wire disconnected). You will see this is where the ground continuity comes from. How many Ohms to ground is the question?

'01 660 Raptor, Burgard +2+1 arms, YFZ Shocks, LSR anti-vibe, CTR pipe, jetted, K&N
'01 Polaris Scrambler 400, K&N
'02 Honda 400ex, Big Gun pipe, jetted, K&N, Lonestar +2 A-arms, Lonestar anti-vibe
'04 Suzuki LTZ400
'16 RZR XP4 1000 Turbo
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-01-2016, 06:03 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadManiac View Post
Orange wire will Ohm to ground through the coil... measure the orange wire's connector on the coil to ground (with orange wire disconnected). You will see this is where the ground continuity comes from. How many Ohms to ground is the question?
With the orange wire disconnected, the terminal to ground is 1 ohm. But even with the orange wire not connected to this terminal the orange wire grounds (1.6 ohm) I thought this could be the problem?

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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-02-2016, 01:49 AM
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That does sound strange... output of the CDI at the orange wire is a transistor (FET), I believe... with the FET on, there is a 100V pulse or so on the orange wire. With it off, there should be a pull down resistor, but I would be surprised if it was less than 100 Ohms, else there would be more than an Amp flowing through it... way more then necessary.

I'd try to find another CDI to swap out, if you can (match the year - 01 to 01, or 02 and up for 02 and up). It is sounding more and more as if your aftermarket CDI might (and I say might because I am not familiar with the aftermarket CDI's characteristics) be the problem.

Stock CDI's RARELY fail, but I can't vouch for aftermarket ones.

'01 660 Raptor, Burgard +2+1 arms, YFZ Shocks, LSR anti-vibe, CTR pipe, jetted, K&N
'01 Polaris Scrambler 400, K&N
'02 Honda 400ex, Big Gun pipe, jetted, K&N, Lonestar +2 A-arms, Lonestar anti-vibe
'04 Suzuki LTZ400
'16 RZR XP4 1000 Turbo

Last edited by QuadManiac; 06-02-2016 at 01:51 AM.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-10-2016, 12:09 PM Thread Starter
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it was indeed the CDI afterall, got an 03 oem of the bay and it fired right up. I forgot to measure the batt voltage to check stator but should be fine, got a new battery also so hopefully i dont fry this cdi

took it for a (very) brief spin due to spongey brakes and a DMC alien pipe with 0 baffling/packing (dont worry its not staying that way), but ahhh the grin when i floored it in 3rd, makes it all worthwhile.

Thanks again for the help quadmaniac!

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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-11-2016, 11:21 PM
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Fantastic! Glad I could be of help.

CDI's fail so seldomly, it really takes a lot of good evidence (which you provided) for me to even think one might have gone bad.

Chalk this victory up to good troubleshooting on your part!
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'01 660 Raptor, Burgard +2+1 arms, YFZ Shocks, LSR anti-vibe, CTR pipe, jetted, K&N
'01 Polaris Scrambler 400, K&N
'02 Honda 400ex, Big Gun pipe, jetted, K&N, Lonestar +2 A-arms, Lonestar anti-vibe
'04 Suzuki LTZ400
'16 RZR XP4 1000 Turbo
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