[rt]

RULES HAVE CHANGED!
Assume all builds on what you think is the best overall

Base your answers on:
A) Performance
B) Reliablity
C) Cost effectiveness
D) Or what ever the heck you want

If you want to vote on a build thats not up top, post a reply and I'll add a pole slot for it.
this was revised because some had changed their minds...inluding me!

 

[Mad Dog]

Re: Best motor Build for 660

I guess it really depends on what you want to do with the motor and bike.

If it's drag bike the engine should be setup a little differently from a duner, and a lot differently than a trail bike or XC machine.

Smaller pistons are more reliable, 105mm+ are less. Higher compression can be less reliable, ie: 11:1 vs 14:1.

As for bang for the buck, a 686 is hard to beat. More often than not you can run on a stock rod.

 

[rt]

Re: Best motor Build for 660

assuming it was for trail riding, mx, recreational riding, a mix of all riding, ect...not all out drag racing.

 

[ironraptor04]

Re: Best motor Build for 660

i like the 719\720 im going to be getting it soon more edit post later ran out of time in school

 

[firstraptor]

Re: Best motor Build for 660

673 and be able to bore the cylinder another 1mm later. I think more is gained by the compression bump than the added bore size.
You might also look up Tim Barker, I think I read he's offering a +6 stroker.

 

[rt]

Re: Best motor Build for 660

Kenz performance also offers a +6,
It'd sweet to test one of them kits out (still won't be like my old gsxr 750), but I don't want to rebuild them all the time (as they call for in the 760-780cc range).
I'm leaning towards a 686 kit.
a 673 would probably do a nice job; figured since it was getting bored out, and the +1mm piston was just as expensive as the +2mm that I might as well put a 686 in it.
I think the dilemma for me more than anything is putting an aftermarket rod in or not????
Haven't entirely made up my mind yet, I still want to see what others have to say about the 719's.

 

[firstraptor]

Re: Best motor Build for 660

Price the hotrods replacement crank assembly. Cheap insurance.
I had my cases split recently and found a few bearings that clicked when I turned them. If your into the motor look at the bearings.The full set of motor bearings was around $100/$150, trans included.

 

[rt]

Re: Best motor Build for 660

I think thats the route I'm gonna take. (I like cheap insurance)
I'm sure I have a few of them bearings rattl'n around, they just haven't got loud enough yet.

 

[firstraptor]

Re: Best motor Build for 660

Obviously it require's splitting the cases, going to add the stroker at that time?
I did the timing chain and cam gear too, the timing chain crank gear is included with the crank, but only one of the bearings.

 

[Mad Dog]

Re: Best motor Build for 660

673 and be able to bore the cylinder another 1mm later. I think more is gained by the compression bump than the added bore size.
You might also look up Tim Barker, I think I read he's offering a +6 stroker.

This is the philosophy I had in mind when I decided to make my bike a stock bore buildup. The 2hp that'd be gained by the 2mm jump in bore size wasn't as important to me at the time as the ability to rebuild. However I already owned the 100mm piston when I started the rebuild so my choice was easier to make. I'm actually on my 3rd set of rings on the same wiseco 100mm piston and oem cylinder. That said, my next project is likely to include the 10:1 105mm piston I have lying around on a stock stroke.


If you're willing to spend the money on a new crank and rod then I'd suggest the ever popular 720 HR kit. If you're putting up the money for a rod and piston you might as well increase your displacement while you're at it. If you want to sneak in under the $$$ wire on an oem rod then I'd stick to a mild 686.

Personally I'm not quite as paranoid as some (ie: much of BT) about rod failures. They do happen and they are costly but IMO it's not necessary to replace them just because you break 53rwhp. A lot of it has to do with setup, maintenance and tuning as well. But if you can afford it and have any inkling of breaking into the 65 hp and up range now or in the future then I'd suggest doing it now rather than later.

The cam chain should be replaced often, especially if you run at higher rpms. I throw a new one in once a year because of their questionable reliability when it comes to stretching and breaking. The main bearing on the other side of the crank is a 30-40 dollar part alone, I've never looked into any kind of full engine kit.

 

[rt]

Re: Best motor Build for 660

Thats why I was so torn between the 686 and the 719 (other than the piston being $100-150 more over standard aftermarket.)

I Have a few lingering questions?

Would you recommend Oversized valves with the 719?

The carb's that I wanted to get were the 35 or 39mm keihin fcr's, but I run a ct exhaust. Any ideas? (NO edelbrock)

 

[Mad Dog]

Re: Best motor Build for 660

Thats why I was so torn between the 686 and the 719 (other than the piston being $100-150 more over standard aftermarket.)

I Have a few lingering questions?

Would you recommend Oversized valves with the 719?

The carb's that I wanted to get were the 35 or 39mm keihin fcr's, but I run a ct exhaust. Any ideas? (NO edelbrock)

I had the valve discussion with Tim Barker when he had my bike, and I've looked at a lot of dyno runs. With the 102mm bore and a non-drag race port job I do not see the value of increased valve size. I can get deeper into it and start invoking the principals of HV porting but that discussion's been had many times. Personally I'll stick with stock size, especially if you're going with a milder port job.

The FCRs are great, but you'll have a problem with the CT. If you call Allen up and chat with him he'll let you know he has a special midpipe section that has been bent/built with FCR clearance in mind. It should cost you 75-100 bucks plus shipping. The other option is to swap pipes; sparks is the best bet for both power and fitment for singles while LTE's small clearance issues can be overcome for a good set of inframe duals. Barkers are great, but I'd suggest LTE's over them for rec riders.

 

[warwgn]

Re: Best motor Build for 660

I agree with Maddog 100% about the size of the valves, and only want to add it is well worth the money to get better quality valves; i.e. stainless or titanium.

 

[ironraptor04]

Re: Best motor Build for 660

ok back to my post taht i was in schooll lol dam senior year he he

ok im going with the 720 kit from vito's preformance should be here on wed or thrusday it included the crank and rod not sure what make a stage 3 hotcam kibblewhite springs jet kit and top end gaskets i also instead of the je piston they had i told them not to put it in so i got the wiseco 102 bore 11.1 comp piston kit i also got a full cosmetic gasket kit from them total price 850 or so

just one ??? where do you get a port and polish done i just need a poish though so

 

[Mad Dog]

Re: Best motor Build for 660

Great point on the valves warwgn. But I'd mention that ti has a less than stellar track record and that stainless steel valves are preferred. Ferrea (sp) and kibblewhite are both excellent choices.

ok back to my post taht i was in schooll lol dam senior year he he

ok im going with the 720 kit from vito's preformance should be here on wed or thrusday it included the crank and rod not sure what make a stage 3 hotcam kibblewhite springs jet kit and top end gaskets i also instead of the je piston they had i told them not to put it in so i got the wiseco 102 bore 11.1 comp piston kit i also got a full cosmetic gasket kit from them total price 850 or so

just one ??? where do you get a port and polish done i just need a poish though so

I'm fairly sure it's an oem crank with a barker rod in it.

You don't polish the head on a 4 stroke, if you do it's the exhaust only. What you need is porting, and that can be done by any major engine builder.

 

[ironraptor04]

Re: Best motor Build for 660

i dont want it ported really cause i dont need it and there arent any major engine builders around me one reason i dont want a port done is because i am going to be running stock carbs with it what do you think the jetting is going to be like on it

 

[rt]

Re: Best motor Build for 660

Read up on it..won't touch ti valves for a 660, unless I could replace them every four or five rides (like some professionals.) plus there too pricey! The porting is going to be geared more for the higher rpms(I like my powerband on the high side). I was looking at +1 ferrea valves at the ins-exs, The guy who's building my engine could get'em for me for $220 (same for standard size) for all 5. If recommendations are for better valves, why not go bigger for no more money than what is being spent on the oem size?...sort of like the stock crank---strocker crank dilemma..
Besides that, I saw the kms fuel injection kit ...I like it...a lot. It looks a little smaller than the stock carbs, the ct pipe should fit with out modfication..unless anyone else knows different?? The price for a 39 fcr carb set up and the mid pipe maddog said I would need comes close to the price kms wants for the fuel injection kit.. any thoughts anyone?

 

[firstraptor]

Re: Best motor Build for 660

$220 for Ferrea valves is nuts, got mine for $120. Can be had on e-bay for $110. Sorry rt.
Agree about the TI valves, not worth it. Get new stainless.

Iron
As for not porting, your spending a lot of money and not finishing the job. At least clean up the runners. I know very little about porting, but head gaskets are cheap, I plan to take small steps and see what happens. Yea, this could be ugly.

 

[rt]

Re: Best motor Build for 660

I'm having the exhaust ported to the maximum tolerance and a step below the max. tolerance on the intake side.
It'll work well with the stage 2 hotcams duration and lift.(and O.S.valves...my opinion) as for the price of them,..I'm not much of an ebay surfer...but, I think I'll go and see whats over there for that price! Good look'n out 1st raptor.

I think I'm gonna take a lot of pics when I take the motor apart, never did it when I was always ripp'n into my gsxr motor. (miss that bike) Quad motor...whole different story!

Went to ebay real quick..ferrea valves 120 to the door.. First raptor.. I owe you a beer.

I also checked into vito's performance stroker kits. There kit doesn't offset the piston, so your not forced to use what piston they specially make for it. Thats nice! I think I have a good game plan now..

 

[ironraptor04]

Re: Best motor Build for 660

I also checked into vito's performance stroker kits. There kit doesn't offset the piston, so your not forced to use what piston they specially make for it. Thats nice! I think I have a good game plan now..

iknow that is y i told them to drop there piston i already had my own and i orderd up a 102 wiseco 11:1 comp lol

what other places besides profesinals do porting cause i aint got any near me lol