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Going broke one quad upgrade at a time
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, so I'm getting to the point where I'm thinking more and more about my suspension. I have a 2009 Raptor, stock bore, propper big 3 and a dynatek programmable ignition, along with a HDD clutch set up. Probably going to a stage 2 cam and a +2 TB, maybe a port and polish. It has a +2 extended swingarm.

My riding varies. I use it for trails out here in the Oregon Mountains, and Dunes. I like to jump, although I dont get much air, and I do ALOT of technical climbs! If it's at the dunes, I will climb it!

My question is this, what would be the best suspension set up? I'm tired of the top end sway back and forth, tired of the whoops, and hard landings when jumping. I have a Precision stabilizer. What next?

My best friend put a set of Houser +2.25 fully adjustable long travel A-arms, and Fox Evol shocks on his wifes quad. They seem very happy, but this is a dunes only quad. My question is does a non spring shock do good on the dirt as well? Do I go wider/Long travel? Do I go Elka, or Fox? What are the differences?

I know these are probably more than I need, but that's not the question at hand. I tend to talk myself into the best option that is available for me. Whether "I need it" or not. Tell me what you guys run. What is dual rate, tripple rate? HELP?!?!?! LOL
 

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Your going to have people tell you fox and your going to have people tell you elka. I have ran both and if you go the expensive route with elka shocks they are excellent.

The rear shock is huge. Especially at the Oregon dunes with the whooped out roads. A well setup rear shock will make be such a big difference on your ride you wont believe it. Once I dialed in my Elka Elite rear I was able to go as fast as possible through hauser road there in coos bay.

My recommendation would be a +2 wide long travel front end from either Houser, Lonestar, or Laeger with Fox evols, and a fox podium rear shock.

Dual rate and Triple rate would be the difference between how many springs you have on your shock. A triple rate shock would have 3 springs and a dual rate would have 2 springs.


Check out these build your own suspension kits we offer

http://www.tqsatv.com/products.php?cat=Build+Your+Own+Kit
 

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I personally don't like springless shocks...if the valves or seals ever fail ur done. With the std shock w/springs u could ride back to the truck on the spring if he same failed on u. As far as the dunes go the wider the better imo..but I ride west coast dunes so...as far as shocks go PEP, custom axsis,Motowoz, fox podiums,elkas...that's also order of which I think is best and would buy. As far as a arms lsr,houser, jd performance, asr..but if u big dollars to spend..then texteria arms and king shocks go and u too could b like bill markel.
 

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Shocks:
I personally prefer Fox shocks over Elka due to the adjustability and consistency over the years. The Fox Evols are completely tunable from racing to dunning without missing a beat by adjusting different amounts of air in the main and Evol chamber. I think since your riding application varies from one application to the next this would be one of the best setups for you. Recently, Elka has gotten a little better sending the correct shock out the first time for the application, but they're still hit in miss. The only thing that concerns me is your plus two swing-arm if you go with Fox if it's not in their application chart already. Motowoz makes an excellent shock you may want to research them before making a decision.

LT A-Arms:
MGC Style : ATV Four Play +2" , Houser Pro Series +2.25" , JD Performance 0-3"
Forward Placements : Lone Star Racing +2+1 , JD Performance 0-3"+1"
Standard Style LT: Lone Star Pro Series , JD Performance , Laeger , Roll , Walsh
(I think since your dunning and hill climbing the forward placement a-arms will benefit you more than the MGC or Standard style.)

Feel free to give us a call anytime! 270-774-1982


http://www.kbmotorsportsonline.com/chassis-components/complete-suspension-packages/
 

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What is dual rate, tripple rate? HELP?!?!?! LOL

Below is a quote taken from TRX450R.org from Nick from Jet Suspension:



Before understanding the different rates you need to know how springs are rated – springs are rate for the amount of force it takes to compress the spring 1”. The numbers below are simply for ease of math – not necessarily the rates we use in our JET Stealth Conversion Kits.​
A single rate spring of 100lbs means for every inch of compression it takes 100lbs – so the first inch 100lbs the next inch – 100lbs more (200lbs total) the third inch another 100lbs (300lbs total) and on we go from there. A single rate spring is very easy to tell since you can see the coils are all the same distance from each other. For several applications a single rate spring is not versatile enough for different types of terrain – if we were all racing on an oval asphalt track, single is o.k., but most of us are hitting rocks, cross roots, bumps, big G-outs, jump faces, big landings and want the suspension to feel good on all terrains. In order to accomplish this we need some type of progression so we can initially be soft enough to take on the stutter bumps, rocks, etc – but also be able to take a big hit. If we simply decrease the rate of a single rate spring to be soft enough for the little stuff – by the time we get further down in the spring – there is not enough support for the big hit. Conversely if we stiffen the spring to take the big hits, everything else becomes harsh and we take a trip to the chiropractor.

Dual rate springs – (I prefer triple for MX – but BIG MX triple may be too soft so we will use dual for big jumps over 70’) since we are looking for progression to be able to be versatile – we can progress by mechanical linkage (rear linkage) or stacking springs. If we stack TWO springs of 100lbs – the rate is softer – which becomes 50lbs per inch instead of 100. So if we have 3” of shock shaft – we can allow the two springs to compress (with a rate of 50lbs / inch) – this will be soft enough to deflect easily hitting roots, rocks, bumps etc – but TOO soft for the big hit. NOW that we have it softer, we will allow the two springs to work together at 50lbs per inch for the first half of the shock travel. Half way through the travel we will install a mechanical stop for the top spring so it can no longer move. Now the only spring that can move will be ONE of the 100lb spring (main spring) which will make the spring rate change (or crossover) from 50lbs per inch to 100lbs per inch. Since we are now at a stiffer spring rate than before – it can take the bigger hits. We can play with this position of crossover up or down depending on preference and conditions. Sorry if I’m being slow, but I get this question several times a week and would like to be thorough.​
This can also be accomplished by a dual wound spring – which is one spring that has some coils that are closer (typically at the top) and some further away. The close ones will contact each other effectively crossing over to the next rate. This works well too, but there is no adjustment to the point where it crosses over.

Triple rate springs – (my woods preference for the front by far) if we are still not versatile enough we can stack another spring on. If we stack (3) 100 lb springs on top of each other (yes there is a formula) the initial rate will now be 33lbs per inch (crossover) then two springs 50lb per inch (then crossover) and the final spring - 100lb. we can play with the rates and crossover positions – but we typically will divide the shaft travel by three between the body and the bumper and use all three spring for the first third of exposed shaft, then crossover the top. The 2nd third of shaft travel will now be two springs, then crossover. The third will be the last spring (Main Spring) which will continue to travel until the shock body hits the bottom out bumper which acts like a progressive fourth rate. Why is this my preference for trail riders and woods racers? Because it is more versatile for so many different situations and they way we design our JET Stealth Conversion kit, we can adjust it simply by adding a crossover ring making it stiffer or remove one making it softer.​
 

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Going broke one quad upgrade at a time
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I do like the fox shocks, they look great, I hear they handle great. My question is this. Is fox ahead of the others making a springless shock? Or is this a downfall? Do they wear out quicker not having a spring to take up some of the work, and abuse the shock goes thru? I guess I need to call them and see if their Podium can be used with my +2 singarm.
 

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We have custom Rear podiums built all the time by fox. One on a +2 swinger shouldnt be any issue.

I have not had a customer contact me yet complaining about a blown or worn out airshock. I think they hold up extremely well.
 

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Going broke one quad upgrade at a time
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Sweet, it'll be a couple of months before I purchase, and probably have to section it out, front shocks first, then a-arms, then rear shock and axle. SOOOOOOO Expensive! LOL
 

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Going broke one quad upgrade at a time
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Sweet! I didn't realize you were so close Steve! I guess me and Russ will have to head down just to check out your shop! LOL. He loves the fox shocks and houser A-arms he bought for his wifes quad from ya. Maybe have to plan a trip. LOL.
 

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Having your stock shocks valved and sprung for your weight is sometimes a little more economical. Probably not quite as good as all new shocks, but still night and day difference over stock. After having mine done, I was able to fly through the whoops in the Oregon Dunes. My buddies were pissed though. They couldn't keep up with me anymore. Once you experience good suspension, you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner.
 

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Sweet, it'll be a couple of months before I purchase, and probably have to section it out, front shocks first, then a-arms, then rear shock and axle. SOOOOOOO Expensive! LOL

Bohica, I spoke with Fox to refresh my memory on the compatibility of the +2 swing-arm combine with the podium. They do not have it in their application to be spot on, but they feel a simple spring change will do the trick. In certain applications exchanging the spring cost a little extra, but this time it's free for the 700 Raptor model from any dealer/distributor you purchase from.

I agree suspension in general is expensive, but it treats the body well.

Take Care
270-774-1982
www.kbmatv.com
 

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Going broke one quad upgrade at a time
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks Kenneth for checking on that. I bought the swing arm from u. It was a great recommendation. And looks great!
 
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