[aarond]

Hi,

I am trying diagnose a starting problem that my 660 has. I was riding down a down a dirt road when it simply turned off. Now it does not start and yes, my kill switch is in the RUN position. I have checked and found that it has no spark and that the ignition coil has no power when the key is on and the start button is pressed. Also, I have checked the continuity of the wiring and it is good back to the CDI box. Does this mean that my CDI box is the problem or is there something else that could be wrong?

Thanks.

 

[Colorado700R]

Not as well versed on the 660 as some, but it sounds like your theory is correct on the CDI. By chance does the 660 have a rollover switch that could be an issue?

Hopefully QuadManiac will chime in.

 

[QuadManiac]

CDI's rarely fail.

1) Is the starter cranking the engine over, but the engine just won't start and run on its own? (you weren't clear here) If so, unplug the rectifier/regulator and see if it will now start.

If starter motor is NOT turning:

Test these now -

2) Does the temperature light still come on when you press the start button?

3) Does the reverse light come on when you place bike in reverse?

4) Do the headlights work?

Answering each of these will get us one step closer to your problem.

The coil does not have a DC voltage that you can measure. Instead, the CDI sends it very short 100-200V pulses at the RPM rate - around 30 times per second at idle. If you measure with an AC voltmeter, you will be lucky to see more than a volt or two, as the average voltage (0V interrupted occasionally by a short HV pulse) is very low.

 

[aarond]

Yes, the starter is cranking the engine just fine. It just won't fire.

I'll try the unplugging the rectifier/regulator as you suggest. I suppose you are thinking that the rectifier is more likely the problem?

Thanks.

 

[QuadManiac]

No, this is a test trick to see if the stator has a particularly common problem - a short between windings. Unplugging from the rec/reg removes the short and allows spark to return, but the fault is in the stator.

Let me know what the results are. Either way, there may be a couple more things to try after this.

While you're in there, check the orange and black wire connections at the coil... make sure they're both clean and tight.

 

[willykiller]

Yes, the starter is cranking the engine just fine. It just won't fire.

I'll try the unplugging the rectifier/regulator as you suggest. I suppose you are thinking that the rectifier is more likely the problem?

Thanks.

Check for spark with a new plug into the sparkplug boot, ground the plug to the engine and turn the engine over.................

 

[02raptor660]

I had a wierd one when my CDI did die. it was mid ride and shut off. turned out it popped the fuse. replaced fuse and as soon as i tried to start or turn key on i dont remember it would pop the fuse again. checked all the wiring and turned out to be a bad cdi. replaced it and been running great since.
just my .02
keep doing what quad and willy say
mike

 

[willykiller]

I had a wierd one when my CDI did die. it was mid ride and shut off. turned out it popped the fuse. replaced fuse and as soon as i tried to start or turn key on i dont remember it would pop the fuse again. checked all the wiring and turned out to be a bad cdi. replaced it and been running great since.
just my .02
keep doing what quad and willy say
mike

Good to know, and as been shown on this forum, the CDI units are very good and do not contribute many problems...........

 

[aarond]

OK, I unplugged the regulator and it fired up right away. Then with it running I plugged it back in and it shut off immediately. Also, the connections at the coil are good.

So, what are next things to check? (BTW, thanks very much for your help.)

 

[Renegade5399]

Time for a new stator.

 

[willykiller]

This indicates that the stator has an internal short and must be replaced......................

 

[QuadManiac]

There is a NEW possible alternative - This has been reported several times now, enough that I've got to believe the possibility.

The short may be between the charge windings and the reverse rotation winding, both in the stator. It appears as if the reverse rotation winding is not really necessary - some aftermarket stators don't even have them, but if shorted to the charge winding, and when the rec/reg is plugged in, the short causes a no spark condition. Unplugging from the rec/rec releases the short and spark comes back, but of course, the battery will now not charge.

SO, find where the stator wires exit through the rear of the left side case cover joint and follow them to the first harness connector, a round, four wire connector - coming into one side of the connector is red, white/blue, white/green and white/red. Out the other side is red, white/green, white/green and white/red.

Find the RED wire in this bundle. I want you to either unplug the pin from the connector or cut the wire a couple of inches away from the connector (leaving enough free wire that you can reconnect it if necessary).

After disconnecting the red wire, see if the bike will still start (it should), then reconnect the rectifier/regulator and see if it still starts/runs. If it does not, then do the same with the white/blue wire (disconnect or cut near the connector). Then try again to see if it runs both without and with the rec/reg connected. IF it does, your problem is solved. If not, the stator short is to another winding (not the reverse rotation winding) and the stator will have to be replaced.

You're my guinea pig on this, so please let us know what happens and if it works with just the red disconnected or if it requires both, or doesn't work at all. If it does work, this could be a great, simple fix for a problem that has plagued many here in the forum!

Hope this works for you. Looking forward to your reply.

I want to thank Yamaharider82 for bringing this possible fix to my attention. It worked for his issue and, if the you both haved same windings in the stator shorted, it should work for you too.

 

[aarond]

I hope this works, too. A new stator costs $290! I'll certainly give this a try and report back on Monday.

 

[aarond]

Thanks QuadManiac. That worked! I disconnected the red wire from the stator plug and it now runs again with the rectifier/regulator connected.

One question I now have is, Can running with this modification harm any part of the electrical system or not?

 

[willykiller]

There is a NEW possible alternative - This has been reported several times now, enough that I've got to believe the possibility.

The short may be between the charge windings and the reverse rotation winding, both in the stator. It appears as if the reverse rotation winding is not really necessary - some aftermarket stators don't even have them, but if shorted to the charge winding, and when the rec/reg is plugged in, the short causes a no spark condition. Unplugging from the rec/rec releases the short and spark comes back, but of course, the battery will now not charge.

SO, find where the stator wires exit through the rear of the left side case cover joint and follow them to the first harness connector, a round, four wire connector - coming into one side of the connector is red, white/blue, white/green and white/red. Out the other side is red, white/green, white/green and white/red.

Find the RED wire in this bundle. I want you to either unplug the pin from the connector or cut the wire a couple of inches away from the connector (leaving enough free wire that you can reconnect it if necessary).

After disconnecting the red wire, see if the bike will still start (it should), then reconnect the rectifier/regulator and see if it still starts/runs. If it does not, then do the same with the white/blue wire (disconnect or cut near the connector). Then try again to see if it runs both without and with the rec/reg connected. IF it does, your problem is solved. If not, the stator short is to another winding (not the reverse rotation winding) and the stator will have to be replaced.

You're my guinea pig on this, so please let us know what happens and if it works with just the red disconnected or if it requires both, or doesn't work at all. If it does work, this could be a great, simple fix for a problem that has plagued many here in the forum!

Hope this works for you. Looking forward to your reply.

I want to thank Yamaharider82 for bringing this possible fix to my attention. It worked for his issue and, if the you both haved same windings in the stator shorted, it should work for you too.

Excellent, I now have a spare stator if this works...............

 

[QuadManiac]

Thanks QuadManiac. That worked! I disconnected the red wire from the stator plug and it now runs again with the rectifier/regulator connected.

One question I now have is, Can running with this modification harm any part of the electrical system or not?

Not to my knowledge... as I said, some aftermarket stators for the 660 don't even have this winding.

This is GREAT! We now have a possible fix for the most common stator failure. THanks, Aaron for being the guinea pig.

So, just to be sure, you disconnected only the red wire (not both red and white/blue), correct?

 

[aarond]

Not to my knowledge... as I said, some aftermarket stators for the 660 don't even have this winding.

This is GREAT! We now have a possible fix for the most common stator failure. THanks, Aaron for being the guinea pig.

So, just to be sure, you disconnected only the red wire (not both red and white/blue), correct?

Not a problem. I am glad that you had a simple solution for me.

Yes, I disconnected only the red wire and left the white/blue wire in the plug.

 

[Banshee2Raptor]

Excellent, I now have a spare stator if this works...............

Me to....

 

[Hallst2]

No, this is a test trick to see if the stator has a particularly common problem - a short between windings. Unplugging from the rec/reg removes the short and allows spark to return, but the fault is in the stator.

Let me know what the results are. Either way, there may be a couple more things to try after this.

While you're in there, check the orange and black wire connections at the coil... make sure they're both clean and tight.

This actually worked in finding my starting problem! Lmao. Disconnected the rectifier and it fired right up.

 

[QuadManiac]

Great! Next, as mentioned above. disconnect the red connection from the stator to the CDI (and reconnect the rec/reg).

The red winding is like your appendix - unnecessary, just left over from previous versions... and it can cause problems.