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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone know what the compression level on a raptor 700 should be? I am right around 12.1 compression right now because I have an 11.1 cp piston and decked the head approx. .03" which should bring me right around 12.1. But I'm losing coolant and it is hard to start when cold. It heated up to 235 then fell to 210 then back to 235 and I shut it off. The coolant level raises in the reservoir as it heats up. There is no smoking or oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil. My compression tester reads 90 lbs. But it is not capable of performing a leak down test. It holds the pressure unless you press the pressure release valve. Any help would be greatly appreciated here. Thanks
 

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Is that 90psi with or without the decomp? it seems a little low to me, mine is 115psi with the decomp and 135 with the decomp disabled, I would think the 5050 would build more compression than the web 4 because I think it has less overlap....daniel would know better.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
shouldn't your fan be kickin on at 212 degrees? sorry to here your havin problems. what about a bad thermostat?
The fan was running. Not sure exactly when it kicked on but it was definetly on. I have never seen the bike heat up like that but I talked to Daniel today and he said those are normal temp levels. He did mention the thermostat could have gone bad but he wasn't really leaning towards that because the temps were average. It's crazy how high the temps get on these with an aluminum head! I wonder if they make a lower temp. thermostat?
Is that 90psi with or without the decomp? it seems a little low to me, mine is 115psi with the decomp and 135 with the decomp disabled, I would think the 5050 would build more compression than the web 4 because I think it has less overlap....daniel would know better.
Those are levels that I was expecting to see as well. But Daniel said that was normal also. And that was with the decomp. enabled. I have no clue what the levels should be with a build like mine. He said the weaping out of the water pump drain tube was normal as well but it may be going out so keep a close eye on it.
 

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i put a heat gun on mine and just let it idle till it got to temp and the fan came on consistently at 212 to 215 degrees. but im guessing your looking at a inline water temp gauge and daniel knows a hellava lot more than i do about these bikes. so if he says its normal it must be! lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
What do ya mean you put a heat gun on it? Where? Do you have a temp guage? If so what is your temp. range? Thanks for chiming in here by the way :)
 

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What do ya mean you put a heat gun on it? Where? Do you have a temp guage? If so what is your temp. range? Thanks for chiming in here by the way :)

I think he is talking about using a heat sensor gun to get the temp off the surface of the head or radiator.

I will try to get back on a little later....I have to go meet somebody right now....Got your mesage....were you moving with the heat up to 235 or idling at a standstill ?


~ Sandaddy 8)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the reply Sandaddy, I just started the bike (cold) and it heated up to 235 then dropped to 210 then back up and down etc. It never used to go up above 218! And I'm losing a bit of coolant but my compression shows 90 lbs. and it's not leaking down at all. I held my finger on the compression release valve on my tester to allow the guage to bleed back into the cylinder. I held it for about a minute and it did not change from the initial 90 lb mark. But the coolant must be going somewhere??? I noticed a tiny amount of fluid coming from the drain hose out of the water pump but not nearly enough compared to the amount missing from my reservoir. Seems like 90 lbs is pretty low dont you think? Especially considering I'm at about 12.1 compression.
 

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How do you have the coolant overflow tube on the tank (top by the cap) mounted ?......Do you have it running down.....(open end down) ....or....do you have it running up the frame rail....(open end up) ?

If you keep your coolant tank between the low and high on the tank....while you are riding, the coolant will splash around and some will be going into that tube....If you have your overflow tube running down....then that coolant will just be lost while you are riding, as it will just flow out the tube. If your tube is zip tied running up....when the coolant splashes around....it will go up the tube, but run back into your tank.....no coolant loss.

If you have a head gasket leak....you could be pushing compressed air from the combustion chamber into a water jacket on the head or cylinder....this air will go through your coolant system by over pressurizing and blowing past the cap, which will push air and coolant from the overflow tube on the top of the radiator that runs down to the bottom of your coolant tank....You will then usually see some bubbles coming up from that tube at the bottom of the coolant tank into your tank and also usually the tank coolant level will rise. Many times these bubbles will not show up until the bike is at operating temp and you put a load on the motor.

So, if you are losing coolant in your tank....not adding...and it`s not showing up anywhere visible....like through the exhaust (usually you can smell it or see white smoke from exhaust)...or into the crankcase....(check your oil...will be milky if this is happening)...then you might be losing it through the water pump or from the overflow tube issue I described earlier. If a water pump issue, you can change the mechanical seal...not a difficult fix.

The worst case, if a head gasket is its going somehow into the combustion chamber and getting mostly burnt up....but, again, you are saying you see no evidence of that....check your plug....any rust on it....lol ? Don`t laugh, I had a cylinder (sleeved) leak and put coolant into the crankcase and it rusted the tip of the plug....lol.

~ Sandaddy 8)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
How do you have the coolant overflow tube on the tank (top by the cap) mounted ?......Do you have it running down.....(open end down) ....or....do you have it running up the frame rail....(open end up) ?
It is running up into the drain pan under the fuel tank where it apparently supposed to go. There is a hose holder located there for a hose that size. But I noticed that it was dislodge from that hose clip and hanging down. I just fixed it...

If you keep your coolant tank between the low and high on the tank....while you are riding, the coolant will splash around and some will be going into that tube....If you have your overflow tube running down....then that coolant will just be lost while you are riding, as it will just flow out the tube. If your tube is zip tied running up....when the coolant splashes around....it will go up the tube, but run back into your tank.....no coolant loss.

If you have a head gasket leak....you could be pushing compressed air from the combustion chamber into a water jacket on the head or cylinder....this air will go through your coolant system by over pressurizing and blowing past the cap, which will push air and coolant from the overflow tube on the top of the radiator that runs down to the bottom of your coolant tank....You will then usually see some bubbles coming up from that tube at the bottom of the coolant tank into your tank and also usually the tank coolant level will rise. Many times these bubbles will not show up until the bike is at operating temp and you put a load on the motor.
I did notice a few small bubbles and the level is rising approx. 1/2" overall. But the biggest concern to me is all of the sudden (since the rally) My temp reaches 137F and then suddenly cools to around 110F. Almost like the thermostat is opening at that high of a temp. It has never heated up beyond 118F before. I thought maybe it was because either my headgasket went out or my vapor temp sensor was mounted on the lower line. So I moved it to the upper line 3" from the thermostat housing with the same results. Also the fan does not come on until it reaches 137F

So, if you are losing coolant in your tank....not adding...and it`s not showing up anywhere visible....like through the exhaust (usually you can smell it or see white smoke from exhaust)...or into the crankcase....(check your oil...will be milky if this is happening)...then you might be losing it through the water pump or from the overflow tube issue I described earlier. If a water pump issue, you can change the mechanical seal...not a difficult fix.
I am getting some very small amounts of coolant coming from the waterpump drain hose when the motor reaches full temp. But no oil in the cooolant or coolant in the oil or white smoke although my exaust does smell somewhat sweet but I'm pretty sure that's the race fuel mixture that I'm running (1gal vp110 to 4 gal. premium) Which seal are you describing? I read the manual and it describes special tools that are required to rebuild the water pump.

The worst case, if a head gasket is its going somehow into the combustion chamber and getting mostly burnt up....but, again, you are saying you see no evidence of that....check your plug....any rust on it....lol ? Don`t laugh, I had a cylinder (sleeved) leak and put coolant into the crankcase and it rusted the tip of the plug....lol.
Haha no, the plug looks a little black but no rust. I just did the compression test and there was no rust in there. But I imagine the plug would rust quick so that would be a definet tell tale sign of coolant in there. Good tip!!!
Does engine ice reach a thermal expansion point around 130F that would cause some bubbling? Like I say there is only a few small bubbles and it seems to stop once the level reaches approx. 1/2" higher then when cold.

~ Sandaddy 8)
O.k. I replied above in red. Thanks again for your insight....
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I just pulled the thermostat and it is a 71C or 163F thermostat so there is definetly a problem somewhere. I dont have a thermometer to test it so I'm gonna go pick one up real quick.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The thermostat is opening at 163 just like it is supposed to. I'm wondering if my vapor is wrong???
 

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O.k. I replied above in red. Thanks again for your insight....

1) For slpash out, I`m talking about the tube at top of overflow bottle, if going up, OK....For Head gasket, I am talking about the one that runs from the bottom of your coolant tank up to the radiator, just underneath the radiator cap....This is your coolant overflow tube....this is the tube bubbles will blow if your pushing air/coolant past the radiator cap....also, a few bubbles some times is normal....I`m talking a stream of bubbles....and usually when you rev, the bubbles will increase.

2) Yes, a small amount of bubbles once and a while can occur and is not an issue.

3) Probably pursue the thermostat issue .....good or bad....One thing at a time so you can follow results

~ Good Luck.......Sandaddy 8)
 

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ya i was talkin about a temp gun and i was checking the outside temp on the rad and water lines. it would get to 212ish and then drop to 170ish when fan came on. i get lil bubbles in my tank sometimes but not like when i had a blown head gasket. when it was my head gasket i would only gain water in the overflow and wouldn't return to the rad.. mine will also push a lil water out of the overflow tank(when at the full mark) but i havent seen it being a problem. rads always full and doesn't over heat.

sounds like your onto something with the thermostat though. just trying to catch up with guys. lol hope this helps
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
1) For slpash out, I`m talking about the tube at top of overflow bottle, if going up, OK....For Head gasket, I am talking about the one that runs from the bottom of your coolant tank up to the radiator, just underneath the radiator cap....This is your coolant overflow tube....this is the tube bubbles will blow if your pushing air/coolant past the radiator cap....also, a few bubbles some times is normal....I`m talking a stream of bubbles....and usually when you rev, the bubbles will increase.

2) Yes, a small amount of bubbles once and a while can occur and is not an issue.

3) Probably pursue the thermostat issue .....good or bad....One thing at a time so you can follow results

~ Good Luck.......Sandaddy 8)
Hmmm... well there is only a few bubbles so it sounds normal then. But I have never seen my temps increase above 218 before and now all of the sudden I lost a little fluid (approx. 8 oz.) it is heating up to 237F :eek: That's why I'm getting a little freaked out. I tested the thermostat and it opens at 163F. I don't understand why or how the engine could reach such high temps just idling with a properly working thermostat in place. It should be regulating the temp.
How can I test the waterpump? And what seal inside the waterpump are you refering to that could possibly be a problem? Are there special tools required to replace it?

ya i was talkin about a temp gun and i was checking the outside temp on the rad and water lines. it would get to 212ish and then drop to 170ish when fan came on. i get lil bubbles in my tank sometimes but not like when i had a blown head gasket. when it was my head gasket i would only gain water in the overflow and wouldn't return to the rad.. mine will also push a lil water out of the overflow tank(when at the full mark) but i havent seen it being a problem. rads always full and doesn't over heat.

sounds like your onto something with the thermostat though. just trying to catch up with guys. lol hope this helps
Thanks for replying here bro I really apreciate all the help I can get. The thermostat is testing normal so that's out unfortunatly. I was hoping this would be a simple fix. The bubbles in the resi. are far and few between so I dont think it's a head gasket. Compression is at 90 lbs. and DL said that was normal even though others have said there's was higher.
Do you have an inline temp. guage installed?
As far as compression goes, have you adjusted your valves lately? Tight valves can effect compression greatly.
I actually did adjust my valves maybe 20 hrs. ago. But that's a great idea man thanks for the tip. I'll go out and check again this coming weekend. Do you know how much compression you are running? Just trying to get a baseline here.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
I should be right around 12.5.1 right now I'm guessing. It detonates on 92 so I have to run a mix 1 gal. vp110 to 4 gal. 92 and it runs good.
Theres somethin goin on here though cause I've never seen it heat up like that 237F. And the loss of coolant is telling me there must be a blown head gasket. I think this is a good excuse to put in a bigbore kit and some ARP studs. Maybe a P&P and some +2 stainless valves with that WK TB LOL!!!
 

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How do you figure you're that high in compression? Your static is ~11-1, your dynamic isnt that crazy. I have even less over lap and there's no way its bumping me by 1.5 compression points. With my stroker crank im at 14.8-1 static, by your math id be around 16.3 -1 lol, head studs be damned I need to weld my head to the jug lol
 
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