[dutchtexan]

OK, I'm not an ATV guy at all, I actually had to go read the instruction book to get the thing in reverse to get it out of the truck (the guys working next door thought it was really funny).

I'm building/restoring/modifying a 1958 Berkeley SE 492 racecar, originally equipped with a 2 cycle, 3 cyllinder 492cc engine, with triple carbs, that engine is long gone though. The car in race setup only weighs about 630lbs and is considered a mini car. It is however very quick and nimble with all wheel independent suspension, coil overs an aluminum monococ type frame and fiberglass body.
The car will have a completely new front clip to house the motor, tranny and differential from a brand new 2006 Raptor 700R. Shifting will be done using buttons on the steering wheel and solenoids.

For the last few days I've been browsing the forum and am getting some great information.
So I know to get the powercommander and a custom map made, also I'm getting the quick shifer attachement to allow me to shift (buttons) without the clutch.

Now for the question: I get to build a completely custom exhaust and airbox system, without the limitations that you would normally have on an ATV like the frame, space to put your legs or seat, mounting points.

What would you do if you had to design/build a custom exhaust manifold?
Should I use a crosspipe for dual exhausts?
What would you do for a custom air intake? (dust and mud won't be a big problem)

The exhausts I'm planning on using can be seen here, they will be side exhausts under the doors : http://www.raskcycle.com/parts/pipes/42-2653.jpg probably one on either side.

Any help will be appreciated.. I posted some pictures in another thread: http://www.raptorforum.com/index.php?topic=11677.0

Rob

 

[ATC-Crazy]

I dont think the Raptor's tranny will be able to take the extra weight and traction of the car...

 

[Krandall]

I dont think the Raptor's tranny will be able to take the extra weight and traction of the car...

I don't know if I'd be worried about the tranny really, I mean, "Dry" weight of the rappy is 400 pounds, then you put a 250+ guy on there, you'r over his "The car in race setup only weighs about 630lbs" the one thing I'd be worried about really, is the clutch.

 

[dutchtexan]

The car weight without a driver is about 630lbs.. add the driver and you are well over.

So the car will be about 250lbs heavier then the ATV is, but there won't be as much abuse as a hard off road driver does on an ATV.

I'm sure the clutch is going to take a pounding and will have to be replaced more often, so be it, it's not like there is a real good alternative engine/tranny, especially now that I bought and disassembled the Raptor.

The dedicison has been made that this is the engine/tranny that will be used, now the question to answer is: how to install.. use ATV speed parts or make custom ones?

 

[hammer700r]

not putting the raptor down at all but I agree. I don't think the raptor engine is the best choice. IMO a Vforce 700 or a brute force 750 would be the way to go on that. V twin and a automatic cvt tranny. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

You can get a solid 60 rwhp with a bolt on kit from FST(Fourstroke Tech). :grin_nod:

 

[n3me5is]

Stick with Yamaha, and use the Apex MTX snowmobile engine!!! 1000cc, 150hp!

 

[hammer700r]

That sounds good too. :thumbsup:

 

[SandDragon]

I'm not understanding why you spent $7000 on a Raptor just to strip the negine. Seems like you could have just ordered a replacement motor. Why not use an engine from a Geo metro or something? If you are dead set on this motor, then you are in uncharted waters. Prob. gonna be alot of trial and error experimentation. I love doing my own custon fab. work so I think I get your angle. Are you going for a multiple outlet look for the tailpipes? Also there are probally alot stronger springs and clutch plates available. Tranny gears could probally be waterjet cut out of a stronger alloy steel or titanium something like that. What is your final drive set up gonna be? Post some more pics of what you're dealing with, and most importantly, Sweet idea, and good luck!!! :thumbsup:

 

[dutchtexan]

Why do this? because it seems to be a cool challenge.

Why the ATV engine/tranny? weight/engine size and the gear box has a reverse. Could have gone much cheaper with a motorocycle engine but there are few with a reverse unless I take a Honda Goldwing, too big, or an aftermarket V-twin with an external transmission, too heavy and too big. I'm not familiar with snowmobiles (I live in Texas) but I expect that that engine and tranny is a little bigger then the ATV engine, I'm already having trouble fitting this in the car.

The wheels on the car have 12" rims, my final tire height will be around 22.5" nothing all that much bigger then a lot of you seem to run on your ATV's. I may change the front gear to a smaller size (more torque) but I'll decide that after the first test ride.

Going for the double exhaust to be able to move more air, I would prefer to go with a single exhaust on the passenger side so I don't have to burn my legs on the drivers side when I get out.

There are stronger clutches and springs available and I'm expecting to install those soon. When the gearbox fails we will analyze and replace what is require with stronger pieces.

I didn't quite spend $7000, the 2006 models go for quite a bit less, also the parts have a value, I could have bought a replacement engine (expensive) but I also need the wiring, ECU and other odds and ends and at parts prices that would have been more expensive then the full ATV. When you combine that with using the differntial and sprocket from the rear and pieces of the axle you see why this was a more economical way to go.

I'm working on a website dedicated to the car as part of the existing Berkeley car website, I'll post a link in this thread when the site is up.

Rob

 

[racin1]

Thought I would chime in on this as I own a performance shop building EFI street rods and high horsepower cars (www.nothingbutperformance.net). The Raptor setup is not going to work. You may as well give up. I know this stinks but surely you still have enough of the raptor left to put it back together to sell it and recoupe some of your losses. You should look into a snowmobile type engine or maybe a streetbike engine where you have something larger to work with. I can help you line all this out but the raptor engine's trans is not gonna take the load. The more you beef up the clutch, the more load you put on the trans. making a cusotm air box and exhaust is EASY. THis is a four stroke so there is no REAL high tech to building the tubing. I build 1000hp plus turbocharger systems for late model cars so I know a little about this. Regardless, the raptor engine is gonna cause you more headaches in the end and by then it will be so far gone, it will cost 10 times as much to turn back. I would look more into a Hyabusa engine myself. They are already quite a bit heavier and the trans is designed for a lot more horsepower and the weight of 2 riders in a heavier machine. Not to mention a lot more power and better power to weight ratio. Hope this helps. The reverse loss does pose a problem though and for that I think I would look more into a small car engine.

 

[dutchtexan]

Thanks for all the great reasons why this won't work.

The choice has been made, this is the engine I'm using.

So let me be an a-hole for a bit; I was looking for help, insights or ideas to make it work, I don't care about your reasons why it won't. I'm sure I'll run into problems, so be it, we'll find a way to around them or fix them when we get there.

Without going into all the reaons why this setup, here are some limitations that I have to meet:
- Less then 700cc
- has to have a reverse
- chain driven

 

[racin1]

WEll, definitely understand your situation. On that note, let me offer my help in any way I can to get it working. I build street rods and high performance combos all day long and am always faced with getting things to work that normally won't. Lemme know

 

[NICK]

just curious, i'm not a mechanic, but i was wonder since everyone was talking about weight and the tranny not holding up, what about something like a rhino? how much do they weigh? they have cvt's right? i never drove one myself, wouldn't they be close to the same weight? or would a cvt/auto or what ever they use be better for this type set up? those things look pretty heavy, so when i first read this post i didn't think nothing of the weight, to me it sounded sweet, or am i still way off?

 

[t_r_h]

Are there some issues with the Raptor tranny I haven't heard about? I haven't been here very long, so I definitely could be missing something, but it seems to me that with all these people almost doubling the horsepower on their machines and then pounding the hell out of them, going off jumps and riding fast over rough terrain, that putting the trans in a tiny street car wouldn't tax it too much.

A snowmobile engine might have been a good idea, especially a Phazer's 500cc 80 hp 4 stroke, but then you're stuck with a CVT. I've been riding snowmobiles for 23+ years, and I know about clutching mods, but a CVT WILL NOT react as quickly as a sequential manual transmission. That's why they use sequential transmissions in just about every form or racing except for technologically backward NASCAR.

As for the intake, if it will be able to get cool air without an airbox, I'd use a velocity stack setup. Check out pegasusautoracing.com, if you're not already familiar with them, they have a huge selection of auto racing parts and supplies.

As far as the exhaust goes, I don't think a crossover pipe would do you any good on a single cylinder engine. Unless you've got your heart set on running true duals, I'd just go with a larger diameter, single pipe.

Go ahead and post that link, I want to see this thing.

 

[dutchtexan]

As promissed the website with some more info, we'll be updating this page as the build develops.

For anyone wondering if I would actually go through with it, to make the engine fit (yes that is how small the car is) I had to cut of the top motor mount, no way back now

http://www.coldplugs.com/berkstodayrobsch01.htm

This site is maintained by John, a Berkeley expert from Maine, he has all kinds of great information on these fun little and rare cars.

Rob

 

[SandDragon]

Sweet Berkely Raptor!!!! :thumbsup: Just curious, in the pics it looks like you're fabing some new pieces. How much weight are you adding? What about using aluminum for the shock mounts and motor mounts? Looks very cool though! Does the hood close or are you gonna modify it?

 

[phucker]

hey guys this guy came here for help, not to be told it wont work. as long as he gears the engine down a little it would work just fine i am sure. dutch if you need some parts to make the exhaust let me know, i can talk to tim barker for you and get some of the special pieces you will need for the exhaust. wish i didnt live on the opposite side of the country i would love to work on a project like this.

 

[dutchtexan]

Sanddragon, yes I'm building a complete new front clip to mount the engine, front axle, suspension and front rollcage, then a central frame and a rear frame for rigidity and to have a place to mount the rollbars and five point harnesses. Total weight probably around 35-45 lbs. While this is a lot of weight, it is easily offset by the lighter engine compared to the original. The engine/suspension mount and front structure is build out of 1/8" steel plate (6" and 1" wide) the frame will mostly be 3/4" 16 gauge and the mount plate for the rollbar and 5 point harnesses is a 1/4" by 8" piece over the width of the car.

Phucker, thanks for the offer, the exhaust header is the biggest challenges rights now, want it to be a 2 into 1 going on the left side of the engine (like the stock header) but the stock header is way to restrictive, then I'm mounting a single exhaust under the passenger door. The picture shows where (packaged in seranwrap to protect the chrome while I'm fabricating) I'll let you know if I need parts, I'm thinking I may need the first part of the header, from where they bold to the head to right next to the cyllinder. One other thing that will make it look cool, the headers will stick out the front through the opening where the grill used to be.

Rob

 

[SandDragon]

Doesn't sound like too much weight to me. :thumbsup: IMO you can overcome the weight concerns with some good ol' fashion sprocket sizing. When I was a lad I had a Rupp minibike. It had about a 13" rear tire with about 12" sprocket, I'm sure I could have pulled your car with it. Only a 5hp motor with a comet clutch setup. I think you'll be just fine, I can't wait to see a video of this thing cruising!!! What are you gonna do with it? Race? Just curious to know what kind of top speed you're after. Thanks for showin' pics so we can see the progress. Oh yeah, you are going to paint it retro Yamaha yellow with the black and white stripes, right? :lol:

 

[dutchtexan]

SandDragon: u can overcome the weight concerns with some good ol' fashion sprocket sizing.

Agreed, using a 13 up front and a 39 in the back, makes the distance per engine revolution a little less (just slightly) then the Raptor because the car tires are a little bigger, may start of with the standard 38 rear just to see what it does.

SandDragon: What are you gonna do with it? Race? Just curious to know what kind of top speed you're after.

Looking for about 70mph, the gearing should get me exactly that. Just for fun and to do some road racing (autocross), really just because I liked the idea of this project, have to do something in retirement.

And I'll get right on those colors ;-)