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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I bought this quad last year and have been chasing bugs ever since. Its got several issues. The biggest that i need to start with is, it breaks 520 chains. I think the motor placement is wrong. The center of the front sprocket is 8.5 inches in front and 3 inches higher than the pivot for the swing arm. THE motor is also angled about 10 degrees tilted forward. Some others have voiced concern about oil starvation going down steep hills. I know it would be optimal to have the engine further back and perfectly inline with the pivot for the swing arm but is there a tensioner system or fix without cutting up this frame and starting over?

Im very new to quads but build race cars and customs. Im not scared to dive into that part- I just want to make sure im headed in the right direction and not make more work than neccessary. Heres some shots of what im up against







i got some bad advice and ordered a 71 tooth rear sprocket and 16 front and bought 530 chain. Of coarse nothing fits. The rear sprocket is way to big. Not only that but the rear sprocket hub is toasted. The axle splines have a bunch of play and the 450 hub is literally twisting the center.

So to recap- I need help with motor placement or a chain tensioner that will allow for enough travel to dune and not snap a chain or be so loose that it comes off.

also looking for advice on the engine angle. level it out or 10 degrees isnt the end of the world?
 

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your probably over tightening the chain as you travel through your rear suspension. The closer you can get the front sprocket to the pivit point of the swingarm the better it will get
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
thats what I believe is happeneing. Im going ot pull the cloi over and cycle it and actually plot the sprocket distance as it cycles. THe raptor is a 02 i believe, 450 style swing arm, 03 gsxr 1000 motor
 

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This topic has been hashed over several times on the "Junkies" site.
Theres plenty of good info in a "Pinned" topic.

That motor , with a stock oil pan, doesnt care about being tilted 10 degrees.
The stock oil pan is designed for the bike to ride wheelies and not starve for oil.

Im guessing your motor was tilted forward to keep the Height of the motor down.
Doing that is what causing your primary sprocket to be so far away from your pivot.

The fact that your still using a stock pan is also why the motor was placed so high in the frame. The beauty of the GSXR motors is that they are SO popular in racing circles that they make a "Flat" pan and swivel pickup tube for them allowing you to lower the motor.
Do this along with a Sidewinder exhaust AND you get more ground clearance.

Straighten the motor back up and use a flat oil pan with a swivel pickup tube.

slide the motor back as close to the swing arm pivot as possible.

With the frame set at "Ride height". Lower the motor so the center line of the primary sprocket is at least 1 1/2 inches BELOW the center line of the swing arm pivot point.

Do this and I would be Shocked if you need a tensioner.

Mock it up and then do what you mentioned. Leave the shock off and raise and lower the swingarm through it complete range of motion. The chain should NOT get looser. It may get slightly tighter, but never tight enough to pull on the primary sprocket.

You should be running at least a 525 chain. I always ran a 530 chain myself.

Buts its probably a good thing you had a weak chain on there, because if the chain didnt break, then that means it would have ripped that transmission right out of the cases.

As a matter of fact , I believe thats what happened to the previous owner.

I raced and duned my bike for 5 yrs. I NEVER needed a tensioner and I never broke or threw a chain off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
thanks bart- this is the first of many questions- Im ok with having to move the motor-

Next on the chopping block is rear hub and axle. What is need for this type of set-up and should i stick with the 450 platform or look elsewhere. I dont want to sink a ton of money into this thing as its only ridden 4 or 5 times a year but i dont want to worry about it breaking either. The motor supposedly makes 200 hp and im 6 "5- 250 lbs.
I might turbo it down the road with the stock motor i have as well so i would rather over build it than do it twice. I need to iron out the swing arm before I place the motor so its lined up without any custom spacers.
 

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thanks bart- this is the first of many questions- Im ok with having to move the motor-

Next on the chopping block is rear hub and axle. What is need for this type of set-up and should i stick with the 450 platform or look elsewhere. I dont want to sink a ton of money into this thing as its only ridden 4 or 5 times a year but i dont want to worry about it breaking either. The motor supposedly makes 200 hp and im 6 "5- 250 lbs.
I might turbo it down the road with the stock motor i have as well so i would rather over build it than do it twice. I need to iron out the swing arm before I place the motor so its lined up without any custom spacers.
This is not meant to be negative or anything of the sorts, its ONLY because theres A LOT of misinformation out there about street bike motors.

Street bike motors in the bike frame dont even make the HP most people claim.
The definatly dont make the same HP in an ATV frame.

I dont care who says what. Ive dyno'ed these motors.

A busa motor make 180 HP

That motor makes 150 HP in the bike frame on a stock tune

It drops BIG TIME in an ATV to about 130 HP. Ask sac 5.0.

My turbo motor made 210 HP on 10 lbs of boost with turbo pistons and 110 pump gas
with a decent tune.

I have a set of turbo pistons available $200
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
you arent going to hurt my feelings. i didnt build it. If it doesnt make 200 then so be it- I still want to over build it and im just going off what the guy who built it told me and whats on the dyno charts he provided. Maybe he jacked the correction way up? Either way i need to set up the chassis for a fat ass like myself.

Bart what are you running for axles and hub?
 

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you arent going to hurt my feelings. i didnt build it. If it doesnt make 200 then so be it- I still want to over build it and im just going off what the guy who built it told me and whats on the dyno charts he provided. Maybe he jacked the correction way up? Either way i need to set up the chassis for a fat ass like myself.

Bart what are you running for axles and hub?
Modified Raptor frame
+10 swing arm with a round carrier.
JJ & A round carrier for double wide Raptor bearings
stock axle and hubs work for a while but wont last long.

I now have the +10 swinger, round twin row bearing carrier, and a Dave Moore racing 4130 chromoly axle with Mod Quad hubs and a rear sprocket for a 530 chain AND a custom shock for duning.
I also have some awesome sand tires
I might be willing to part with them.
The swinger was 400. Axle and carrier and hubs were 700, Tires were 750, the shock was 800. Wheelie bar was 400

MAke me an offer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
alright- finally got to working on it a little bit. I dont think engine placement is my problem. Once i got the side guard off and actually measured it all exactly the front sprocket is perfectly in line with the swing arm pivot and rear sprocket centerline.


It is 8 inches forward but as I cycle the suspension from all the way up to all the way compressed I only get 1/8th inch difference. At ride height sprocket to sprocket is 34 5/8ths and using a ratchet strap and bottoming it out its 34 1/2". I know you guys dont like the motor placement but its it really worth all that work to get rid of the 1/8th inch?

I never had a problem with the chain coming off. Just snapping. I'm wondering if i leave it a little on the loose side and have a problem with it coming off then I just ad a tensioner.

Still havent brought home an angle finder but at ride height here is the motor angle


And I think I might have found why the bike is so hard to steer going down hill.



Whats weird is its not hard to steer on flat ground just going down hill. In any event that bent steering stem cant be helping anything.

So assuming the engine is staying put the next hurdle is the rear axle and hub. This is whats on there (stock 450 i believe)



i welded the axle to the sprocket hub because there was all kind of play in there before the last trip and i didnt have time to fit it right.



Anyway the axle is 34" flange to flange. I like the width. Anything I should consider when looking for a new axle and hub? The old sprocket bolted to the outside of the hub and wasn't lined up perfectly. So I want to double check and make sure the swing arm is built square and square on the bike. How do you guys do this? I was going to find a piece of tubing to slide in there and measure to the front pivot with a piece of tubing in there as well.

Is it standard on liter bikes to have to run the sprocket on the outside of the hub? Its not a machine surface so I thing bolting it up to a flat sprocket starts putting pressure on the fingers before you even hit it with any hp.

this was the 530 mocked up with the monster 71 tooth rear.


i think when the rear sprocket is the right size i might have a chance of the chain clearing the frame.

Input ??? Feedback???
 

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not sure yet- Running this 16-71 combo might help clear the swing arm pivot since my engine is so far forward.

It may help but I think a 71 tooth is going to be overkill. I am running a 14/52 on my R1...In my opinion, it is geared just right for all around riding. I can do just about anything with my Raptor...hill climbs, drag racing, all around duning, etc. There is a gearing thread in the Hybrid and Conversions section.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
well i actually mocked the chain up on there last night at enven though the sprockets only come 1/4 inch closer to one another look at how slack the chain goes.

ride height


compressed



things will get a little better since the chain wasnt all the way tight at ride height, you can see it hitting the frame bottom because the diameter of the 71 tooth sprocket, but its still not going to work without moving the motor or coming up with a tensioner.

before I cut it up has anyone had any luck running a spring loaded tesnioner for this application? Moving the motor means loosing ground clearance and redoing exhaust. not the end of the world but im lazy and looking for an easy solution.
 

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You need to lower the drive sprocket, (engine) so it sits about half way in the travel of the rear swinger, or about even with the swing arm pivot pin...............:)
 
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