[2500grunt]

I am having problems with my daughters Raptor and believe it is the starter and wanted to know how to determine (by testing) if the starter motor is bad? I have removed it from the quad and hooked up 12V to the lug and grounded out the - lead of the battery to a ground on the quad and it is unresponsive. It also had 12V to the starter lug when it was installed and the start button pressed. It is not locked up and does not humm, buzz etc? The gear in the case (starter gear?) spins clock wise and I can spin the crank with a socket hooked up to the flywheel so the engine is not locked up. I also took apart the starter and inspected the 2 brushes and everything looks ok? I'm currently using my generator battery from my RV to start this thing and it's rated at 350 CCA and was fully charged to 13.2V when tested. I started another thread about this in the 350 forum but hit a dead end? http://www.raptorforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79108

Any idea what kind of gear oil is in the starter and how much? Thanks guy's!

 

[QuadManiac]

removed it from the quad and hooked up 12V to the lug and grounded out the - lead of the battery to a ground on the quad??? do you mean on the starter? and it is unresponsive. !

AS per above, when removed, did you provide the battery negative to the case of the STARTER or to the quad, as you stated?

IF you grounded the starter body, and applied 12V to the lug on the starter, and nothing happened, I would normally suspect your brushes are worn out - but you claim they're in good shape... so the windings may be open - measure with an ohm meter on the commutator.

There is no oil in the starter... just a bit of grease on the shaft and bushings.

 

[2500grunt]

I first grounded the starter directly to the starter cover from the battery (thinking that this was the correct way) when it was lying on the floor and it sparked like hell so I then grounded it to the engine case (known good ground) but still nothing? This was all before I took it apart. I know very little about the brushes on the starter motor but they did not look burned, badly scratched or worn unevenly?? Is there anything else that would prevent the starter motor from turning when it is getting 12V other than a seized engine, seized starter motor gear, very low Amperage, bad ground or cable? Any tips on how to do an ohm's test on the windings or internals of the starter motor? I don't have the allowable specs for doing this test either? I have a service manual downloaded from here but I'm not sure it is the correct manual? The manual doesn't state 350RT (I have) only 350X, XP, S, XKC, ETC. I can post some pic's of the starter internals if it would help me? Thanks again guy's!

 

[QuadManiac]

I first grounded the starter directly to the starter cover from the battery (thinking that this was the correct way) when it was lying on the floor and it sparked like hell so I then grounded it to the engine case (known good ground) but still nothing? This was all before I took it apart. I know very little about the brushes on the starter motor but they did not look burned, badly scratched or worn unevenly?? Is there anything else that would prevent the starter motor from turning when it is getting 12V other than a seized engine, seized starter motor gear, very low Amperage, bad ground or cable? Any tips on how to do an ohm's test on the windings or internals of the starter motor? I don't have the allowable specs for doing this test either? I have a service manual downloaded from here but I'm not sure it is the correct manual? The manual doesn't state 350RT (I have) only 350X, XP, S, XKC, ETC. I can post some pic's of the starter internals if it would help me? Thanks again guy's!

I don't know what the 'starter cover from the battery' is.

Remove the starter from the bike (at least partially). Using jumper cables connected to the battery, clip the black jumper to the body of the starter, the red to the lug coming out of the starter that the cable from solenoid was connected to - does the starter turn very fast?

 

[2500grunt]

I don't know what the 'starter cover from the battery' is.

Remove the starter from the bike (at least partially). Using jumper cables connected to the battery, clip the black jumper to the body of the starter, the red to the lug coming out of the starter that the cable from solenoid was connected to - does the starter turn very fast?

Sorry for the wrong terminology! I did as stated above and the starter still won't respond. I pulled the starter apart again and re-inspected the brushes and the commutator and 1 of the 2 brushes is worn (uneven) pretty good and the commutator has a good amount of wear into the surface area where the brushes run so...Think I'm just gonna get a new starter unless the brushes can be replaced? Not even sure if that will work considering the wear in/on the commutator? Sorry for the incomplete statements guy's! Thanks!

 

[QuadManiac]

If the starter won't turn when 12V is applied directly, the starter is indeed your problem... whether its brushes, commutator or windings is going to require disassembly and inspection.

Brushes can be replaced, but won't help if one or more windings have opened up... use a multimeter set to Ohms to measure across the commutator - on opposite sides, like where the brushes would be in contact - if you don't see a low resistance measurement on every pair of commutator pads, the windings are bad... if you do, replacing brushes might do it.

BTW, you stated your manual says 350... You are in the 660 section, and I've been assuming that's what you're talking about - a Raptor 660 (you just said your daughter's Raptor - not size). Doesn't make much difference related to the starter system... but if this goes anywhere else it is important.

 

[2500grunt]

If the starter won't turn when 12V is applied directly, the starter is indeed your problem... whether its brushes, commutator or windings is going to require disassembly and inspection.

Brushes can be replaced, but won't help if one or more windings have opened up... use a multimeter set to Ohms to measure across the commutator - on opposite sides, like where the brushes would be in contact - if you don't see a low resistance measurement on every pair of commutator pads, the windings are bad... if you do, replacing brushes might do it.

BTW, you stated your manual says 350... You are in the 660 section, and I've been assuming that's what you're talking about - a Raptor 660 (you just said your daughter's Raptor - not size). Doesn't make much difference related to the starter system... but if this goes anywhere else it is important.

I do have a 350 and noticed that there are alot more hits/threads in the 660 forums and figured they are somewhat similar? Sorry if that was a problem. So I just finished testing the windings and all are ok. I also bent the little metal tabs behind the 2 brushes to get it to make better contact to the commutator and got it to try to crank over. Crank turned a little bit and no clicking noise from the relay. Battery leads got really hot though. Sounds like my 2 brush's are worn down. Think I will just get an aftermarket starter? Thanks for the help and won't report back unless it still won't start.

 

[QuadManiac]

No, please report back - we always want to hear both problems AND successes.

 

[2500grunt]

Well, bad news. I just installed the new starter and it will crank but not start? I have 12.6 V at the relay lug then a drop to 11.1 when the start button is hit. Reverse and neutral indicator lights work, on/off switch works, relay fused are good. I pulled the spark plug and installed it back into the boot and cranked it over and I can't see a visible spark? So, I'm back to where I started 2 months ago only I now have a new stator and starter... Is it possible that I installed the stator pick up wrong? The little metal looking pin or dot on the pick up should be facing the coil right? Don't think it can be installed backwards DUH? The parts diagram doesn't specify?

 

[QuadManiac]

Unplug the rec/reg and see if spark returns.

What brand of stator did you install?

Verify that orange wire is properly and tightly connected to coil along with its ground wire.

 

[2500grunt]

Still nothing...I bought a stator on E-bay from a company called Caltric: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-...155983QQptZMotorsQ5fATVQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories.

 

[QuadManiac]

Make sure the pickup coil is mounted as close to the flywheel as is possible - the bolt holes allow a small amount of adjustment. Starting to draw at straws here.

DId it ever work with this current stator?

 

[2500grunt]

One more question before I open up the side case to inspect the p/u coil: If I use my test light and probe the orange wire coming out of the CDI should I be getting 12V when I'm cranking it over? Currently I'm not either b/c I need to do what you stated above or I have a bad CDI? Also, the bike has not started with this new stator. I'm one last step away from taking it to a local shop and claiming defeat.

 

[QuadManiac]

No, it should have 100-200V very short pulses ocurring at RPM rate - if you measure with an AC voltmeter, you'll only see around a volt or so. The only way to really see it is with an oscilloscope.

In the postion where you are, an untested stator and no spark, it is tough... swapping out a known good CDI is the easiest test, if you don't have access to the electronics test equipment (oscilloscope) to truly look at the signals.

 

[2500grunt]

Ok, thanks! I pulled the side case off earlier today and don't see any slotted pick up coil bolt holes or bracket holes so....Looks like it will be going to the shop soon. I'll report back when this thing is up and running.

 

[QuadManiac]

They're not slotted holes, but the holes are slightly larger than the screws - so loosen screws, force pickup coil as close to the flywheel as possible and tighten the screws back up.

I have heard at least once in the forum that this was an issue.

 

[2500grunt]

Just tried that and was unable to make any kind of adjustments in the p/u coil bracket. There is no slack in it. The p/u coil tested good with my meter too. Forcing me to believe it's a bad CDI in addition to the stator and starter? I think this thing got zapped with lightning? Dam!

 

[QuadManiac]

We have seen MANY DOA stators from aftermarket vendors, here in the forum... you really need to find a CDI to test with - they are regularly available on eBay for around $25-$30... make sure its the right year (01, or 02+) to match your bike.

If you can swap CDI with a known working one, and it STILL doesn't work, that should tell you the stator is bad.

Of course, it could be the coil... but not so likely.