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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Stock raptors are about 35hp right?

So fully jetted, intake, ct or sparks exhaust will get you to about 50hp.

So when you go one step further, to stage one hot cam, and 11:1 stock bore piston, and maybe some mild head porting, where would you come to on HP? I imagine the torque gains would be big...
 

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with some good valves, a quality valve job and a good dyno tune you could see upper 50s with a port job that is a little more than a cleanup job.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
What would the powerband be like? Would it be nice and broad with this setup, or maybe a little bottom heavy?

Also, by good valves, you mean stainless valves like ferreas or kibblewhites?
 

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Yeah either Ferrea or KW would be fine for that application.

Witht he 11:1 piston and stage 1 cam its going to have gobs of low-mid power and it'll still feel good up top too, just won't have quite the top end of a stage 2 cam bike.
 

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pewterpecker said:
The stage one hot cam is better for an all-around quad though, right?
]

I think so. I was told to stick with the stage 1 for my type of riding(all around), unless your flat out and are using the top end then therse no since in getting the stage 2. Hell for 145$ for eitehr cam, go ahead and upgrade your valve springs now so if you decided to swap you dont have to pay/work more.

Before my cam/piston/head work my pipe really made a big powerband in the mid-top end. You could feel it pull hard in the mid range and up, now it pulls really hard in the low-mid end and you can feel where the cam wears off and the pipe takes over the top end. It feels like it doesnt pull as hard up top but it really does more now, its the new low-mid gains(quite a bit) that make the big end seem weaker.
 

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Well, this is my own personal opinion.

The 660 has so much low down power, even in stock form, that I find it an overkill to give the bike even more low down and midrange.

What I have found is that all that low down is nice, but it can also be a bad thing. The good part is that you can lug it around on very technical stuff and still have ample power to pull you out, but the bad thing is putting all that power down at low revs and having to struggle to keep the nose down.

For a guy who likes to wheelie and show of, yes, ok... all that low down power is nice, but try drag racing a 450 or other fast bike, and you will soon come to hate all that low down torque.

If I drag race a 450 with similar mods, I have no problem keeping up, or beating the other quad, as long as we do a running start. As soon as we do a start from standing still, those 450's take off at one hell of a rate, while I am trying to keep the nose down and letting go of the throttle. The 450's gain a few bike length and then it takes a long time to haul them back in. I hate it when that happens, because the 450 guys think that their bikes are better, but the only reason they won, was because I could not launch the bike at full power.

Because of that, I think the stage 2 cam is better with a 11:1 piston. If it loses low down, or is the same as stock, hell, that’s just perfect for me, but it gains a heap more mid abd top end power, and that to me is more important. The stock raptor is not known for high end RPM power, so the stage 2 cam will give me what I need.

With the stage 2 cam, you are not going to have to slip the clutch to take off and crawl over the technical stuff. The bike has ample low down power for that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hmmm... that is an excellent argument for the stage two cam...

Does anyone have any dyno charts of s1 vs. s2 cams?
 

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Good point freez,..but, on second gear starts a s1 will get out of the hole quicker.
anyways-a s1 & s2 are matter of preference and budget.
you can basically get a good piston and s1 cam for the amount you pay for the s2 and springs.
IT would be very interesting to see a dyno of the same bike running a higher comp piston, using a s1 and s2. a change in the curve (obviously) and a difference of around 2 hp between the two cams.
Plus your engine has to rev out more to get the hp of the s2. That I would think would make it more reliable as well. My opinion is that I would get a s2 because that is a matter of my preference and where I want my power, but a s1 is undoubtably the best all around cam when looking at budget, reliability, ease of installation (no new springs to intall), and awesome low-mid range.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I think I'm going to wait until next winter before I do any internal mods. I just don't have enough experience with the quad to really know where I need more power. I need some time to recover financially anyways, and I think a big build will be off indefinitely...

I may get a pipe for this year and I think I'll leave it at that for now. Maybe a better airbox... I still have about $1500 worth of mods I want to do before I even get to internals.

Like I need some new bars, protective gear (new helmet, chest protector, and jersey/pants), skids, and a pipe.
 

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Let me just tell you guys what I see on a daily basis from the builder perspective.

The scenario usually goes like this and people spend thousands more than they need to.
1. start out with stock bike
2. when they get used to the power and want more, they do a single pipe/filter/jet kit
3. when they get used to that and want to go faster, they go inside for a piston and a cam but usually a stage 1 cam because they continually tell themselves that this will be plenty fast and they don't wanna screw with replacing the springs
4. get used to that power, then go for some porting, more aggressive cam, better valves and valve springs
5. get used to that then go for 39 carbs and dual exhaust, but the head has to be reported for the 39s

It would be a greater initial outlay of money to just go whole hog in the beginning but it would actually be cheaper than buying parts 2 or 3 times to finially reach the penical of power.

Once a person goes into the motor, I rarely see anyone stop at a piston and a cam, its just a stepping stone to future internal mods.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Very valid!

I know this because of my days tinkering with diesels. First I said just a chip! Then I was like... ok, bigger turbo housing and injectors and that's it! Then the clutch slipped, then I got a new one, then I need a bigger turbo, and bigger injectors. And finally, thousands of dollars and 3 turbos later I was at 509hp and 1023ft/lb
 

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pewterpecker said:
Very valid!

I know this because of my days tinkering with diesels. First I said just a chip! Then I was like... ok, bigger turbo housing and injectors and that's it! Then the clutch slipped, then I got a new one, then I need a bigger turbo, and bigger injectors. And finally, thousands of dollars and 3 turbos later I was at 509hp and 1023ft/lb
Word. My lightning was stock, pullied/tune/intake/exhaust and thought thats it its plenty fast. Then more boost, then nitrous....then boom! Next of course built block/heads/cams/nitrous/kenne bell etc.....$20k later I still want to upgrade. Its better to do it once and do it right.
 

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Or you could practice a little self control and stick with the limits you've set for yourself. Whats wrong with just being happy with what you have. Why does everyone have to keep chasing the unachievable. Just ride the damn thing and be happy.

:nana: :nana:
 

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True you do end up spending more over time. But, TIME is the issue. Maybe I'd rather go a little faster today than a lot faster tomorrow. If time wasn't a factor, none of us would pay interest on loans.

What I'm saying is that if cash isn't the issue, look into a bigger build. If it is, don't let the prospect of having to "re-upgrade" scare you away from changing anything at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Going from stock bore 11:1 to a 686 11:1 is only going to a net like 1hp right?

I think I'm going to stick with a stage one hot cam, stock bore 11:1 piston, a CT pipe, and some TCS shock upgrades and call it good for now. I'm going back to school this fall and I need to put together a plan so I can get this all done within the next 8 months.
 

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sounds like a good plan.. :thumbsup:
 

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pewterpecker said:
I really want to do a 727 build, but I just don't know when I'll have enough money to do it all at once... :unsure:
If I had the cash I'd definately upgrade again, but for now this will hold me over.
 
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