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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I just picked up a new orange and black SE, and besides it being so nice that im scared to get it dirty (I know), I was feeling a little worried about the break in run I just did. I have read about running it hard to break it in, so I was following those instructions. Even though Ive seen plenty of testimony about it I coulnt help feeling like I was hurting the engine! Someone chime in here and make me feel better!
 

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My Dad used the Motoman break in secrets on his snowmobile, a 2006 yamaha Apex GT(1000cc 4 stroke 4 [email protected] 150hp) Threre haven't been too many riding opportunities, but 1500 miles, hasn't had to add any oil, and it has LOTS of power. I thik you did the right thing.
In fact, I'll be doing it too, with mybrand new Raptor 700 SE.
So will my Dad on his brand new Can-Am Renegade 800.

This guy's info just seems so make sense to me. Yeah, it kind of feels wrong, but I've had most of my best experiences by going against the grain.

He're what we're going by.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
 

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I had an engine built for a custom truck project several years ago. The engine builder was very respected in the racing industry, and builds many many street engines. He told me specifically not to pussy the thing around during break in, or the rings just won't seat... he said drive it normally... break it in like I will be driving it... This was before anyone had a article on the internet about it.
 

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I was the same way w/ mine man, I didn't want to get her dirty at all or take her through the smallest mud puddle....but somehow the quad has a way of changing your mind once she breaks in....after that I take her through hell :lol:
 

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Dont feel too bad. I have been trying to run the shit out of mine since first run. I have run all of my sleds like this and after being torn apart they look great. No worries. :thumbsup:
 

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Way to much hype is given to engine brake-in these days, a carry over from days of old in my opinion. With current piston ring technology break-in as it relates to piston rings is just that ... hype. That same mythology relates to switching to synthetic oils as well. Many new cars and more and more are leaving the factory with synthetic oil ... why? Piston ring material advancements. There are many good articles around that will tell you all about it. I think your fine, ride it and enjoy!

FWIW ... working in a shop that built dirt trackers as a kid they would push a car with a new motor outside warm it up and set a brick on the gas peddle. If it was still in one piece after 30 minutes it went racing. I still won't do this with any of my stuff but I think you get the point.
 

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RLJ3RD said:
FWIW ... working in a shop that built dirt trackers as a kid they would push a car with a new motor outside warm it up and set a brick on the gas peddle. If it was still in one piece after 30 minutes it went racing. I still won't do this with any of my stuff but I think you get the point.
Those engines' life spans are also measured in hours. Racing mentality is the antithesis of longevity.

The motoman break-in article has some serious flaws in his justification. Not saying that his approach is wrong, but the supporting reasoning he uses is totally off-base. For example, he claims that:

Nowadays, the piston ring seal is really what the break in process is all about. Contrary to popular belief, piston rings don't seal the combustion pressure by spring tension. Ring tension is necessary only to "scrape" the oil to prevent it from entering the combustion chamber.

If you think about it, the ring exerts maybe 5-10 lbs of spring tension against the cylinder wall ...
How can such a small amount of spring tension seal against thousands of
PSI (Pounds Per Square Inch) of combustion pressure ??
Of course it can't.

How Do Rings Seal Against Tremendous Combustion Pressure ??

From the actual gas pressure itself !! It passes over the top of the ring, and gets behind it to force it outward against the cylinder wall. The problem is that new rings are far from perfect and they must be worn in quite a bit in order to completely seal all the way around the bore. If the gas pressure is strong enough during the engine's first miles of operation (open that throttle !!!), then the entire ring will wear into
the cylinder surface, to seal the combustion pressure as well as possible.


Um, last time I checked, the forces of physics still apply, and the PSI in a cylinder is exerted in all directions and at the same time. The gas pressure does NOT passes over the top of the ring, and gets behind it to force it outward against the cylinder wall without the same pressure applied to the top of the ring, to the gap between the outer side of the ring and the cylinder wall, etc.

He makes it sound like hard-running applies special powers to the laws of physics to break you engine in. Sorry, but not on this planet. On the same concept, you cannot fill one "side" of a balloon up by "blowing it up hard".

Moreover, the wear between the cylinder honing and the new ring mating surface will wear down due to friction between the two surfaces no matter what rate you do it at. Faster does not make the parts mate any "better".

Oh, and the kicker to all of his theory? Rings float. Rings rotate. He makes it sound like a fast and hard wearing helps the surfaces to mate specifically for each other. Well, that's all out the window as your ring(s) rotate over time.

Only thing you really want to avoid in a break-in activity is glazing. Glazing will not happen if you follow the manufacturer's recommended break-in style.

Speaking of style, Motoman's style reeks of snake oil tactics. Same style claims are made on those little magnets you clamp on your fuel lines to "orient the gas molecules" for a 50% increase in gas mileage. Or the throttle body spacers from Airraid, etc. ::) Like the auto manufacturers aren't going to use a .39 spacer to increase their MPG:horsepower ratings when they spend millions on it as is. :eek:

Bottom line, these are your rides; treat them how you want. I've never had an engine failure or problem breaking in vehicles without thrashing it from the get go.
 

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Phuzz, in a perfect world yes a given air pressure in a static environment will exert equal pressure in all directions. But when the air has a source and is moving the path of the airflow will have a varied pressure exerted on it by the air. This is because as the air flows its movement increases the force (F=m*a) exerted on the first part of the ring it hits. It then loses accelleration and therefore force as it moves to the next point along its pathway. So if the air coming in hits the top of the ring and then moves to the inside of the ring (b/w cylinder and piston) or moves more in that direction than b/w the ring and cylinder wall then Motoman's statement would be supported. Not saying that I will swear on it's truthfulness, but it appears to me that there is at least a chance that the statement in question could be correct.
 

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Maddog, I'm not sure that your theory holds true. Air pressure exerts force in all directions. It would have to be a very significant and very concentrated stream in order to exhibit F=M*A. It's been a number of years since I've studied Fluid Dynamics, but something just doesn't sound right about that.
 

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ChiknNutz said:
Maddog, I'm not sure that your theory holds true. Air pressure exerts force in all directions. It would have to be a very significant and very concentrated stream in order to exhibit F=M*A. It's been a number of years since I've studied Fluid Dynamics, but something just doesn't sound right about that.
Not trying to argue here, either MD, but the pressure is equal in all directions in a pressurized system, and it equalizes from high to low. The blow-by pressure isn't such that it is so low between the ring and wall vs between the ring and piston slot. If the air is trying to escape, it's going to blow by either gap with equal force.

Also, if air hits the top of the ring, it has to move 90º either behind the ring/piston slot, or between the ring and wall. I see no easier path between the two. Even with the ring tension pushing against the wall, the AIR PRESSURE is equal in these two areas. The backside isn't less restrictive for airflow. The bottom of the ring is also tightly held down due to the compression stroke, so if any path gets more air passing by it (but all have the same pressure constant), my guess would be the wall/ring space would have the larger gap.

His other fallacy is the rate of wear on the honing.

Again, Motoman's explanations sound good. Science beats them to a pulp.

PS: Most engines are turned at the factory, and certainly tested there as well. All of what he speaks about is a mute point to the end consumer.

Glazing is what you want to avoid. Excessive idling can cause glazing. Just run her thru the gears at moderate levels of riding, don't let it idle for extended periods, and vary the RPM's, with no WOT, never lug or overrev. EZPZ. :thumbsup:

Bottom line is that you're certainly not going to have compression loss by following a factory recommended break-in procedure, which is essentially what Motonman is claiming. I do not buy that at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The thing is I had an 06 I bought used that was broken in like youre describing, no WOT, moderate revs, etc, and it was slow. Thats why I originally was convinced by motomans guide. I only ran it for about 10 minutes last night but I was doing hard bursts of accelleration followed by decelleration. I did have it at WOT. Should I now switch to a more gentle break in?
 

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kre62 said:
The thing is I had an 06 I bought used that was broken in like youre describing, no WOT, moderate revs, etc, and it was slow. Thats why I originally was convinced by motomans guide. I only ran it for about 10 minutes last night but I was doing hard bursts of accelleration followed by decelleration. I did have it at WOT. Should I now switch to a more gentle break in?
It is hard to determine what is right for someone else, but I still believe that the recommended break-in will not cause failure, or weak engines.

If that 06 was slow due to a bad cylinder:ring seal, it'd be smoking like Keith Richards.

Bad valve guides/seals and bad ring seal would lead to loss of compression, and you'd be burning oil and have a lot of blow-by.

I bet is was slow due to other reasons: weak spark/plug, bad fuel map, bad gas, TPS, etc...

I do not have a bunch of engines at my disposal to run the test on, as all of us won't have. But I find Motoman's claims to be flawed since the reasons he makes to support his claims, to me, do not hold water.

I'd like to see 20 engines done to factory recommended procedure, then 20 done to Motoman's recommendations, and then do a compression test for the results. I bet they'd be about the same. I still think the initial mating has already taken place by the time we turn the key for the first time. I'm not big on abuse, so I do not mind following th manual, and of the two methods of break0in, I am more comfortable with the moderate one. Why risk it?
 

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Hi. I'm a new guy here, so I thought I would throw in my opinion as well. I have had a 2001 660R and now a 2006 700R and both were broken in using the manufacture's guidelines. Now I am no racer, but I do know how to twist the throttle andeven with the pretty harsh treatment I have given my bikes (after the break in period), I have never had any internal part failures in 5 years and over 5000 miles of riding (yes that is 5000 miles on Raptors). Just to be safe, I personally would not wring the snot out of my brand new raptor motor. I have heard of the other method, but I think that was mostly for 2 stroke motors (and that does make sence!). It only requires a few hours of putting around....are you in that much of a hurry to rebuild your motor?
 

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If the air is static when the piston begins moving upward for the compression stroke then yes, nearly equal pressure will result. I was attempting to address the conditions as the air/fuel mixture enters the intake where it will have a direction and speed. I agree that once the air is static equal pressure will result, just hypothesizing that the brief period of intake air introduction into the cylinder could back up motoman's claim, at least to some degree or fraction.

I could be very wrong in every sense of the word. Been a while since I had statics and dynamics as well, they along with calc 4 are the reasons I aborted my Mech Eng major. ;)
 

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Actually according to our old Suzuki rep when I worked at the Suzuki dealerhip was all driven vehicles are ran from idle to WOT throttle on the assembly line piror to being delivered. Although I've always used the factory break in jumbo...he stated mostly it's listed in the manual for the rider to get used to the unit at a moderate pace. If you think about it...they alter the rpms as mileage goes up. He stated that if the engines were not in the "normal" range, they were taken off the line and then inspected by QC.

Mike
 
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