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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello guys, I want to have some information, so, to be short and clear thoose are the questions:

1) I want to ask if any of you can say something about 19x6x10 front and 18x10x8 tires, would you think they are too small for the raptor? Im looking to make it as low as possible and also capable to jump, to be used in some mx tracks. I already have +2 LT A-arms (with YFZ450R shocks) and extender rear axle too, and the Hess XC/MX rear link. I have zero preload on the suspension also, so I think the only way to make it lower is smaller tires. Im using 21x7x10 and 20x10x9 now. By the way my riding height now is: 8,58 inches at the front engine mount to the floor and 7,44 inches in the front of the footrests to the floor.


2) Another question is, why +3 A-arms are not so popular? there is not much benefit from that +1 wider on each side comparing to any +2 a-arms?


3) Any of you have some issue with stock rims riding quite hard your atv? because Beadlocks rims are very expensive (at least on my country) and I dont want to buy it just for looks. Im not professional at any means, just looking to ride some state mx competitions, just for fun.


4) Would you think 18x10x9 tires are too thin in the side wall to ride MX and I need to buy 8 inches rear wheels to ride 18 inches tires?

Thank you very much, I will be waiting for your experience and knowledge to point me in the right direction.
 

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Hello guys, I want to have some information, so, to be short and clear thoose are the questions:

1) I want to ask if any of you can say something about 19x6x10 front and 18x10x8 tires, would you think they are too small for the raptor? Im looking to make it as low as possible and also capable to jump, to be used in some mx tracks. I already have +2 LT A-arms (with YFZ450R shocks) and extender rear axle too, and the Hess XC/MX rear link. I have zero preload on the suspension also, so I think the only way to make it lower is smaller tires. Im using 21x7x10 and 20x10x9 now. By the way my riding height now is: 8,58 inches at the front engine mount to the floor and 7,44 inches in the front of the footrests to the floor.


2) Another question is, why +3 A-arms are not so popular? there is not much benefit from that +1 wider on each side comparing to any +2 a-arms?


3) Any of you have some issue with stock rims riding quite hard your atv? because Beadlocks rims are very expensive (at least on my country) and I dont want to buy it just for looks. Im not professional at any means, just looking to ride some state mx competitions, just for fun.


4) Would you think 18x10x9 tires are too thin in the side wall to ride MX and I need to buy 8 inches rear wheels to ride 18 inches tires?

Thank you very much, I will be waiting for your experience and knowledge to point me in the right direction.
I was actually about to ask the same question about the tires, so i might as well hijacked your thread.

What are the smallest street tires i can put on a raptor? Actual atv street tires, not some modified bike tires that i wont be able to do anything with.
 

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Dropping rear tire size/height is useless for a MX track, they are perfect for that stock size.
Zero preload is a horrible handling MX setup.
For the street, the shorter the rear tire, the quicker you accelerate...the more top end you lose. So, you need to overcome that with taller gearing, sprocket size change, easiest would be to first go up one tooth on the front.
+3" A-arms are not popular because they were first developed as off-road products, with most of the market there.
On road A-arm sales are a fraction of that, because atv's are not street legal in most of the U.S.
I have ridden a 700 with +3" A-arms, and it was too wide to be fun or used to it's potential on off road and trails.
It also becomes apparent riding it in the open how +2" just happens to be an all around better handling footprint than the +3" are.
There is more of a difference than you think.
Only really beneficial on a street machine, or dunes if you prefer it extra wide.
But, keep in mind, that even though lower is harder to flip or roll, it's also harder to stop from flipping or rolling, because it takes more force to lift/flip/roll the wider footprint, so if it does go, it's going with more force and leverage.
Suspension correctly set up on anything is key, the ride height, length and width of the machine are dependent on application.
Any low, short tire, extra wide machine is going to perform best on pavement or flat track.
MX or trail Needs proper suspension set-up, stock to +2" width, with stock size or taller tires.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Dropping rear tire size/height is useless for a MX track, they are perfect for that stock size.
Zero preload is a horrible handling MX setup.
For the street, the shorter the rear tire, the quicker you accelerate...the more top end you lose. So, you need to overcome that with taller gearing, sprocket size change, easiest would be to first go up one tooth on the front.
+3" A-arms are not popular because they were first developed as off-road products, with most of the market there.
On road A-arm sales are a fraction of that, because atv's are not street legal in most of the U.S.
I have ridden a 700 with +3" A-arms, and it was too wide to be fun or used to it's potential on off road and trails.
It also becomes apparent riding it in the open how +2" just happens to be an all around better handling footprint than the +3" are.
There is more of a difference than you think.
Only really beneficial on a street machine, or dunes if you prefer it extra wide.
But, keep in mind, that even though lower is harder to flip or roll, it's also harder to stop from flipping or rolling, because it takes more force to lift/flip/roll the wider footprint, so if it does go, it's going with more force and leverage.
Suspension correctly set up on anything is key, the ride height, length and width of the machine are dependent on application.
Any low, short tire, extra wide machine is going to perform best on pavement or flat track.
MX or trail Needs proper suspension set-up, stock to +2" width, with stock size or taller tires.
Thank you for the info I really appreciate that. May I ask Why do you say zero preload is horrible handling mx setup?
Racing Atv have smaller tires and even smaller rims (8 inches rims in rear), it would be nice if you can explain some more on that point if you want to.
And why +3 raptor are "less funny" than +2 raptor?
Thank you to take the time to answer.
 

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+3" just make the 700 too wide for ideal handling for most applications.
Zero preload is bad because it shows that your suspension sag is not set up correctly.
Search and read about suspension sag.
Other than brakes, properly set suspension is the most important thing on an atv or sportbike.
Take the greatest rider in the world, that have their suspension dialed in, then turn either the preload, compression/tension, or rebound a little in either direction...and that pro rider can no longer do the same fast lap time...because the machine cannot/ now does not handle correctly. Because the rider no longer has the same level of control on improperly set up suspension.
Instead of the shocks soaking up the bumps, they transfer more of the shock's motion into the frame, and upset the whole ride, and steering and braking suffer when the tires continue to bounce off of the ground, vs staying more in contact with it when shocks are set correctly.
Driven tire heigth and sprocket sizes determine overall gear ratio.
Tire height also effects ground clearance, and a taller tire side wall will flex much more than a shorter one, also effecting handling.
Decades of factory design and racing research and development have lead us to the common tire sizes and gear ratios that come stock today, and as always, are able to be changed for the riding conditions.
Stock, the 700 is very well rounded, but like most any machine, needs purpose built for application and rider size.
Suspension sag is extremely important, and if you learn to set up your suspension, especially with the trial and error of learning it, it will take your riding to another level.
You also cannot really mess up suspension sag adjustment either(other than forcing an adjustment screw), if it handles bad, just adjust, or start over.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
+3" just make the 700 too wide for ideal handling for most applications.
Zero preload is bad because it shows that your suspension sag is not set up correctly.
Search and read about suspension sag.
Other than brakes, properly set suspension is the most important thing on an atv or sportbike.
Take the greatest rider in the world, that have their suspension dialed in, then turn either the preload, compression/tension, or rebound a little in either direction...and that pro rider can no longer do the same fast lap time...because the machine cannot/ now does not handle correctly. Because the rider no longer has the same level of control on improperly set up suspension.
Instead of the shocks soaking up the bumps, they transfer more of the shock's motion into the frame, and upset the whole ride, and steering and braking suffer when the tires continue to bounce off of the ground, vs staying more in contact with it when shocks are set correctly.
Driven tire heigth and sprocket sizes determine overall gear ratio.
Tire height also effects ground clearance, and a taller tire side wall will flex much more than a shorter one, also effecting handling.
Decades of factory design and racing research and development have lead us to the common tire sizes and gear ratios that come stock today, and as always, are able to be changed for the riding conditions.
Stock, the 700 is very well rounded, but like most any machine, needs purpose built for application and rider size.
Suspension sag is extremely important, and if you learn to set up your suspension, especially with the trial and error of learning it, it will take your riding to another level.
You also cannot really mess up suspension sag adjustment either(other than forcing an adjustment screw), if it handles bad, just adjust, or start over.
Thank you for your reply. I know suspension is one of the most important things on atv. I already have set the my static and riding SAG, I have zero preload in front shocks because, its the only way I can set the SAG near where it should be. With zero preload in front shocks, I have about 9% riding sag. Rear shock have some preload but the riding SAG is 25%. As long as I know after reading a lot about it, I found riding SAG for ATV should be about 30% of travel in rear shock and 22% in front shocks. Its that right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
+3" just make the 700 too wide for ideal handling for most applications.
Zero preload is bad because it shows that your suspension sag is not set up correctly.
Search and read about suspension sag.
Other than brakes, properly set suspension is the most important thing on an atv or sportbike.
Take the greatest rider in the world, that have their suspension dialed in, then turn either the preload, compression/tension, or rebound a little in either direction...and that pro rider can no longer do the same fast lap time...because the machine cannot/ now does not handle correctly. Because the rider no longer has the same level of control on improperly set up suspension.
Instead of the shocks soaking up the bumps, they transfer more of the shock's motion into the frame, and upset the whole ride, and steering and braking suffer when the tires continue to bounce off of the ground, vs staying more in contact with it when shocks are set correctly.
Driven tire heigth and sprocket sizes determine overall gear ratio.
Tire height also effects ground clearance, and a taller tire side wall will flex much more than a shorter one, also effecting handling.
Decades of factory design and racing research and development have lead us to the common tire sizes and gear ratios that come stock today, and as always, are able to be changed for the riding conditions.
Stock, the 700 is very well rounded, but like most any machine, needs purpose built for application and rider size.
Suspension sag is extremely important, and if you learn to set up your suspension, especially with the trial and error of learning it, it will take your riding to another level.
You also cannot really mess up suspension sag adjustment either(other than forcing an adjustment screw), if it handles bad, just adjust, or start over.
This is where you need +3 A-arms, +2 a-arms are not enough... Look the second picture, im sit very low on the quad, even so it almost flipped.
141333

141335

141336
 

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No, that's where you need correct suspension set up.
+3" would not have helped you there, but with the same bad suspension, could have flipped you easier, with more leverage.
Correct suspension would have power slid that corner, or, if it still did that...your entry speed was Way too high, and that is the fastest that corner could possibly be taken.
Don't let me talk you out of +3" A-arms, just know that suspension setup is your handling issue, not the width of the machine.
 

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You have too much front preload, the spring rate is too heavy for your body weight, or too much front compression.
The front springs are not compressing fast enough and/or far enough, all the lateral force of the turn pushed/tipped the machine up at the tire's contact patch because the shock could not do it's job correctly and quick enough, because it is set incorrectly.
The front suspension also directly effects the rear, and vice versa.
If one is correct and the other is off, the whole ride still suffers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
You have too much front preload, the spring rate is too heavy for your body weight, or too much front compression.
The front springs are not compressing fast enough and/or far enough, all the lateral force of the turn pushed/tipped the machine up at the tire's contact patch because the shock could not do it's job correctly and quick enough, because it is set incorrectly.
The front suspension also directly effects the rear, and vice versa.
If one is correct and the other is off, the whole ride still suffers.
I appreciate the help, I can understand your point, but im ridding with very few preload. The suspension is triple rate, and rebuild and revalve for my body weight by Jogaca Suspension Works. High Speed compresion is open 65% and LSC is open about 60%, rebound its 45% open. Maybe the new tires grip too much on the wet ground.
 
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