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My first post here, glad I found this place!

Heres the link to the sticky with the manual: http://www.raptorforum.com/index.php?topic=4.0

Also, to the guy who asked what hardware is needed - this is for my 2002 raptor which I think they are all the same:

You will need a 5mm allen wrench to take the skid plate bolts out.
You'll want a 3/8 inch drive ratchet with a 14 mm socket for the oil reservoir and a 17mm socket for the crankcase drain. Althought I found a 17mm open ended wrench was much easier for taking this drain plug out.
You might need an oil filter wrench to get the filter off if yours is really tight.
Your going to NEED a long skinny funnel to pour the oil into the reservior as its in a very invonvenient place. I would say the funnel should be at least 1 foot long, one of those funnels with a hose coming off the end would work perfect as you could feed the hose in there.
Oh and don't forget an oil pan =)

I also found that the reservior will OVERFLOW at exactly 2 quarts of oil if you do not start the engine after putting about a quart in.. you need to put about 1.25 quarts in and then replace the filler cap and let the engine run for 30 seconds or so to suck some of that oil up. I also found that if you do overflow the reservoir, and then try to start the engine without the filler cap on, it will shoot oil out like a geyser ... what I mess I made..


I also wanted to respond to the one persons comment about staying away from automotive oils - I just want to say this is pretty much an urban legend and there is no proof that automotive oils damage wet clutches due to "friction modifiers". This is widely debated over many forums but one thing you will never see is solid proof that running automotive oils will cause problems with wet clutches. This rumor is pretty common in the motorcycle world too but I have seen it to be false with my own vehicles, as have many others I've communicated with.
Just thought I'd throw that in there, if anyone was too scared by the hype to run regular (and much cheaper) oils - I choose not to pay $10 a quart for super duper ATV/motorcycle specific oils until I see some scientific proof about this rumor.
 

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I have responded to this in other posts, but I do know that Friction Modiferis destroy clutches, I did it myself about 6 years ago, I used a 20W50 oil with Friction Modifiers in our 93 Warrior, and in less then 5 minutes the clutch was slipping badly, we dismantled the clutch, could not see any thing wrong, scuffed the plates and reassembled, with no luck, we replaced the friction plates and reassembled the clutch and drove it again, with in a half hour it was slipping again. I had recently purchased my 01 raptor and was reading through the owners manually when I read the section on engine oils and realized my mistake. We ran the engine with new oil to flush the old oil out, changed it to Amsoil 10 40, ran it for about a half hour, dismantled the clutch and installed all new plates, changed the oil again and finally the clutch worked great.
 

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I read through the info from the other thread. Its all very interesting and I do now fear the friction modifiers - but the question still remains, which oils are high in friction modifiers that will damage wet clutches? They must be few and far between as I have run many different oils in many different wet clutch applications and never had any problems. I'm not doubting that these friction modifiers are dangerous, I'm now just looking for some info on how to tell an oil has a dangerous amount of them and which oils to avoid.
 

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I should add that this Warrior is extremely modified, on dyno runs it was putting out 28.5 wheel hp, a stock engine was tested at 16 hp, and the clutch is still basically stock with the exception of the springs being a lot stronger.
 

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tittykaka7 said:
I read through the info from the other thread. Its all very interesting and I do now fear the friction modifiers - but the question still remains, which oils are high in friction modifiers that will damage wet clutches? They must be few and far between as I have run many different oils in many different wet clutch applications and never had any problems. I'm not doubting that these friction modifiers are dangerous, I'm now just looking for some info on how to tell an oil has a dangerous amount of them and which oils to avoid.
All I can suggest is to use oil blended specially for the application concerned, I realize that oil is expensive and so are the repairs that are caused by using incorrect oil. I simply just pay the buck for proper oil, the career I am in has taught me to respect this, since I see lots of variance from this moto and the consumer usually pays in the end ten times over, in your case you seem to be using quality oil otherwise I am sure you would have experienced what I have with my Warrior's clutch.
 

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Uh, first post here.

I couldn't find a "what's he best kind of oil" thread to jump on, so I suppose this is second best. :grin_nod:

I've been using Castrol dinosaur oil in every bike I've owned since the early 70's. Not the synthetic stuff, just the off the shelf white bottle. Never had a clutch problem yet, so I suppose I'll continue to use it.

Great website- I got my '02 660 3 days ago, and I was looking for just such a place so I could read up a bit before diving in. Need to change oil & filter, then check the PBL, then the reverse gear fix... hadn't heard of it until now, so it may or mayu not apply to me, and may or may not have already been done. :thumbsup:
 

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Most people on here use Rotella, Amsoil, or just Yamalube. If your Castrol oil has any Energy Conserving or API on it, it will eventually glaze your clutches. I dont know what your old bikes are, but the Raptor uses the same oil in the motor as it does in the clutch(yes I bet you knew this, not calling you a retard) and any type of friction modifiers will ruin the clutches.

Remember when you remove Parking Brake sensor to fill the end of the plug with some silicone or something.

Good Luck :thumbsup:
 

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Huh? :3question: Did you say something?? Oh, are you talking to me?


Sorry, I got lost watching your avatar.

My last bike was a Kawasaki ZRX1100, and I traded it for the Raptor. It has 48,000 miles on it.

Thanks for the tip on the sensor, I hadn't yet deciphered if I had to jumper it or plug it up. :thumbsup:

 

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Limited660 said:
If your Castrol oil has any Energy Conserving or API on it, it will eventually glaze your clutches. .... and any type of friction modifiers will ruin the clutches.
I have to disagree with this - it was only the old oils, 6,7 years ago and older, that had the wrong kind of molybdenums (friction modifiers) in them that were ruining friction plates. Modern synths all have a "wet clutch" safe friction modifier in them.
 

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tittykaka7 said:
Limited660 said:
If your Castrol oil has any Energy Conserving or API on it, it will eventually glaze your clutches. .... and any type of friction modifiers will ruin the clutches.
I have to disagree with this - it was only the old oils, 6,7 years ago and older, that had the wrong kind of molybdenums (friction modifiers) in them that were ruining friction plates. Modern synths all have a "wet clutch" safe friction modifier in them.
Believe what you want.
 

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tittykaka7 said:
Limited660 said:
If your Castrol oil has any Energy Conserving or API on it, it will eventually glaze your clutches. .... and any type of friction modifiers will ruin the clutches.
I have to disagree with this - it was only the old oils, 6,7 years ago and older, that had the wrong kind of molybdenums (friction modifiers) in them that were ruining friction plates. Modern synths all have a "wet clutch" safe friction modifier in them.
Some synthetics are wet clutch safe, others aren't. Some additives to the oils are safe for wet clutches, others aren't. I'm not a smart enough guy to know what they are and what chemicals/molecules/elements/etc are the cause, I rely on info from trustworthy people who are smarter than I.

If all moly is ok for wet clutches why would Honda still sell essentially the same oil in 2 different forms, one with moly one without? Would I also have to assume that Valvoline's 4 stroke oil is the same as the stuff that comes in the standard auto oil bottle?
 

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How often should I be changing the oil. I pretty much just do some trail riding, hardly ever reach 5th at high RPM's.
Thanks
 

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Moly will not impregnate a clutch friction. It will impregnate the clutch steel but not the friction. If the wet clutch in the raptor was similar to a wet brake system where the "brake" had metal on metal plates that contacted each other to apply friction to stop this would be a problem. Moly is not a problem in a wet clutch.
 

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1fst690 said:
Moly will not impregnate a clutch friction. It will impregnate the clutch steel but not the friction. If the wet clutch in the raptor was similar to a wet brake system where the "brake" had metal on metal plates that contacted each other to apply friction to stop this would be a problem. Moly is not a problem in a wet clutch.
So I sincerely ask, why make oils with and without? Is it a grand marketing scheme where all oils would be just fine and they're just repackaging and jacking up the price? Or is the with/without modifiers only applicable to certain clutch setups or certain types of machines? Like a different oil for every application?
 

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Mad Dog said:
1fst690 said:
Moly will not impregnate a clutch friction. It will impregnate the clutch steel but not the friction. If the wet clutch in the raptor was similar to a wet brake system where the "brake" had metal on metal plates that contacted each other to apply friction to stop this would be a problem. Moly is not a problem in a wet clutch.
So I sincerely ask, why make oils with and without? Is it a grand marketing scheme where all oils would be just fine and they're just repackaging and jacking up the price? Or is the with/without modifiers only applicable to certain clutch setups or certain types of machines? Like a different oil for every application?
[edit] Other additives
In addition to the viscosity index improvers, motor oil manufacturers often include other additives such as detergents and dispersants to help keep the engine clean by minimizing sludge buildup, corrosion inhibitors, and alkaline additives to neutralize acidic oxidation products of the oil. Most commercial oils have a minimal amount of zinc dialkyldithiophosphate as an anti-wear additive to protect contacting metal surfaces with zinc and other compounds in case of metal to metal contact. The quantity of zinc dialkyldithiophosphate is limited to minimize adverse effect on catalytic converters.

There are other additives available commercially which can be added to the oil by the user for purported additional benefit. Some of these additives include:

Zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP) additives, which typically also contain calcium, are available to consumers for additional protection under extreme-pressure conditions or in heavy duty performance situations. ZDDP and calcium additives are also added to protect motor oil from oxidative breakdown and to prevent the formation of sludge and varnish deposits.
In the 1980s and 1990s, additives with suspended PTFE particles were available to consumers to increase motor oil's ability to coat and protect metal surfaces. There is controversy as to the actual effectiveness of these products as they can solidify and clog the oil filters.
Some molybdenum disulfide containing additives to lubricating oils are claimed to reduce friction, bond to metal, or have anti-wear properties.
Various other extreme-pressure additives and antiwear additives

[edit] Synthetic oil and synthetic blends
Synthetic lubricants were first synthesized, or man-made, in significant quantities as replacements for mineral lubricants (and fuels) by German scientists in the late 1930s and early 1940s because of their lack of sufficient quantities of crude for their (primarily military) needs. A significant factor in its gain in popularity was the ability of synthetic-based lubricants to remain fluid in the sub-zero temperatures of the Eastern front in wintertime, temperatures which caused petroleum-based lubricants to solidify due to their higher wax content. The use of synthetic lubricants widened through the 1950s and 1960s due to a property at the other end of the temperature spectrum, the ability to lubricate aviation engines at temperatures that caused mineral-based lubricants to break down. In the mid 1970s, synthetic motor oils were formulated and commercially applied for the first time in automotive applications. The same SAE system for designating motor oil viscosity also applies to synthetic oils.

Instead of making motor oil with the conventional petroleum base, "true" synthetic oil base stocks are artificially synthesized. Synthetic oils are derived from either Group III mineral base oils, Group IV, or Group V non-mineral bases. True synthetics include classes of lubricants like synthetic esters as well as "others" like GTL (Methane Gas-to-Liquid) (Group V) and polyalpha-olefins (Group IV), although actual base oil content of finished blended motor oils is not a factor. Higher purity and therefore better property control theoretically means synthetic oil has good mechanical properties at extremes of high and low temperatures. The molecules are made large and "soft" enough to retain good viscosity at higher temperatures, yet branched molecular structures interfere with solidification and therefore allow flow at lower temperatures. Thus, although the viscosity still decreases as temperature increases, these synthetic motor oils have a much improved viscosity index over the traditional petroleum base. Their specially designed properties allow a wider temperature range at higher and lower temperatures and often include a lower pour point. With their improved viscosity index, true synthetic oils need little or no viscosity index improvers, which are the oil components most vulnerable to thermal and mechanical degradation as the oil ages, and thus they do not degrade as quickly as traditional motor oils.

Synthetic lubricants are designed for "long life" extended drain intervals, but most users rarely run them long enough to gain a cost-effective return. If a "synthetic" oil costs 2 to 3 times as much as a conventional oil, it would have to be used for 2 to 3 times longer than a conventional oil just to break even.

Today, synthetic lubricants are available for use in modern automobiles on nearly all lubricated components, allegedly with superior performance and longevity as compared to non-synthetic alternatives. Some tests[citation needed] have shown that fully synthetic oil is superior to conventional oil in many respects, providing better engine protection, performance, and better flow in cold starts than petroleum-based motor oil. These "tests" simply test the parameters of the oil itself and not really how well they work. Synthetics may offer little or no real-world benefit, as witnessed by the millions and millions of cars that lead long lives on plain motor oil. Generally, other components will fail long before the engine dies of an oil-related failure. Lab analysis of the wear metals contained in the used oil show identical or even lower wear with plain dino oils. Consumer Reports attempted[citation needed] to demonstrate the conventional vs synthetic advantages, but chose taxi cabs as a test-bed, which is actually a non-demanding application since the oil stays hot all the time, easily driving off accumulated water and fuels. This "test" in low-performance engines over a less-demanding driving cycle technically proved little about the subject.


Citation:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil#Other_additives
 

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Mad Dog said:
1fst690 said:
Moly will not impregnate a clutch friction. It will impregnate the clutch steel but not the friction. If the wet clutch in the raptor was similar to a wet brake system where the "brake" had metal on metal plates that contacted each other to apply friction to stop this would be a problem. Moly is not a problem in a wet clutch.
So I sincerely ask, why make oils with and without? Is it a grand marketing scheme where all oils would be just fine and they're just repackaging and jacking up the price? Or is the with/without modifiers only applicable to certain clutch setups or certain types of machines? Like a different oil for every application?
I think that there are certain oils/formulations for certain jobs. I found an oil, it is a 20-50 full synthetic made by Schaeffer oil company that contains moly, but has no "friction modifier" that will impregnate the clutch fibers. I chose this oil for the reason of having moly and it does not absorb alky as bad as other oils. The moly impregnates the metal reducing friction while not having to wory about clutch failure. I chose this oil after speaking with the rep, who is a friend, and found out he is running it in his street bike since it was new, now with over 10,000 miles and has had zero problems. He changes the oil about every 2000 miles and oil samples. So far the oil samples have came back perfect. He also has some local racers using it in their alky sprint and latemodel cars. :thumbsup:
 

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I have been using castrol 4 cycle motorcyle oil as well. Could there be a problem with this? please let me know. There is nothing on the bottle that says wetclutch safe or friction modifiers. I dont want any future problems that i could have avoided.

-kyle
 

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If you have been using it for a while with no problems you should be fine. If it is formulated for a motorcycle application it is probably wetclutch safe.
 
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