Raptor relay buzzing & eating batteries, Update: Still does it

852 Views 64 Replies 7 Participants Last post by QuadManiac, 3 d ago

Backspin

Discussion Starter · 1 mo ago

Most of us will know by now the sound they make with a weak battery. Click click click.

I was busy with my previous career so I couldn't put my mind to it. So I just started replacing parts. First I did the solenoid/relay under the seat. That's where it sounds like the noise is coming from. Nope. Then I just thought it had to be a worn starter that was drawing too much out of the battery. Its a 2001 with original starter so that must be it right? No.

Then I finally had some time to think about this. I bought a new battery again. I thought maybe the valves are way out of adjustment and making it start hard and run bad. And it should be done anyway. So i tore it apart and adjusted the valves. The exhausts were way too loose. I really thought it was part of the problem but no. Changed nothing.

The I watched some diagnostic videos. I figured out it probably isn't charging. I went out and bought a cheap analog multimeter. I discovered that the volts with the new battery disconnected were the same as when the battery was in the bike and running. So aha. It ain't charging.

I unplugged the stator and tested it with the multimeter with the bike running

Now this test showed that the stator was definitely working. But maybe a tad weak. But I am not used to this multimeter. So its probably fine. Then I tested the output coming out of the rectifier/regulator. And it read zero. Zilch. Nothing

So I thought I finally solved it. Ordered a new rectifier/regulator. Put it on. I go to start it. I noticed it click a couple times but then it fired up. I didn't think much of that because maybe the battery was a bit drained (even though I have been trickle charging it all night and day)

I put the multimeter back on the battery with the bike running and it is showing that its charging. Its hard to tell with the analog multimeter but the needle is showing 2 values higher when the bike is running. So say 12 volts when off and 13-14 volts with the bike running at idle. So... its charging right ?

Well it is still clicking before it starts. A couple clicks then the starter kicks in and then it starts. And it doesn't turn over very convincingly. So its doing the same thing still. I bet when the bike is hot, I wont be able to restart it at all. It will just click. That is what it always did. So it is not fixed.

Thoughts ?

See less See more

41 - 60 of 65 Posts

Backspin

Discussion Starter · #41 · 28 d ago

I've watched 3 videos about bench testing solenoids. These damn guys don't understand how important it is to clearly show what wires that they are jumping where.

I found the small terminals that are the coil. I have the positive from the battery connected to the positive on the solenoid. I am jumping the small coil terminal with a wire from the negative side of the battery to complete the cercuit and get it to click. So that I can take a ohm measurement. But it isn't clicking. Nothing is happening when I jump the white wire to the small coil terminal.

See less See more

Backspin

Discussion Starter · #42 · 28 d ago

I put the solenoid back in the bike and it clicks over as it should and reads .2 ohm. The bench test guys read .5 on a new one. So I think that means it's good. I took the main lead off the starter and measured the volts on the end when the start button is hit. 12.6 volts.

Backspin

Discussion Starter · #43 · 28 d ago

The previous video link expired. So here is a Youtube version that wont expire.
April 29, 2023

Trev

· #44 · 28 d ago

If the starter is getting 12.6 volts that's good but it may not be getting the amperage it needs to actually turn the starter over. I'd look for weak grounds and wires with resistance in them.

Reactions: 1

Backspin

Discussion Starter · #45 · 27 d ago (Edited)

Trev said:
If the starter is getting 12.6 volts that's good but it may not be getting the amperage it needs to actually turn the starter over. I'd look for weak grounds and wires with resistance in them.

it isn't. I took the little side cover off to completely disengage it from the engine. With it disconnected completely, the starter does nothing. Just buzzing from the relay

so maybe I'll bench test the starter now. Here I am just going in circles

Backspin

Discussion Starter · #46 · 27 d ago

Im really thinking of loading it up and stuffing it in the local car crusher.

I could bring it to a shop. They will spend all day diagnosing and charge me $1000.

Backspin

Discussion Starter · #47 · 27 d ago

I took the side cover off the starter. Then functioned the key. Nothing happened. Then I took a prybar and turned the starter a bit manually. Then i put the terminals back on and functioned it again. The starter turned. So the heat of running the hard causes the starter to seize up.

Here's how the starter free wheeling sounds. Its a little noisy no ? You can also see the temp light coming on when the button is hit. This is a new starter. Its easy to blame the starter. But the old one did the EXACT same thing. So I don't believe it is a problem with the starter per se. Something is causing the starter to get too hot. And not function properly after a 45 minute ride in the trails

Does this starter sound ok ?

Montana

· #48 · 27 d ago

This is getting hard to follow. What are your voltage readings at point A, B, C, and D with the big hot wire disconnected from the starter (and insulated) with the starter button pressed? The contact side of the relay will have the two larger wires. The coil side will have the two smaller wires.

Handwriting Whiteboard Line Font Parallel

See less See more

Reactions: 1

Montana

· #49 · 27 d ago

Please record two places to the right of the decimal, 12.57 volts for example.

Reactions: 1

Backspin

Discussion Starter · #50 · 27 d ago

Montana said:
This is getting hard to follow. What are your voltage readings at point A, B, C, and D with the big hot wire disconnected from the starter (and insulated) with the starter button pressed? The contact side of the relay will have the two larger wires. The coil side will have the two smaller wires. View attachment 144815

ok so to begin with, the battery this morning reads 12.56 between the terminals.

Then (key on, button pressed, main lead to the starter unhooked)

A)12.26

B)12.26

C)12.23

D)12.21

These readings are from holding the start button until the numbers stop falling. It can take a second or 2.

See less See more

Backspin

Discussion Starter · #51 · 27 d ago

With the starter lead hooked up, running the starter with the gears disengaged(side cover off, gear removed) it drops to 11.45 volts

Backspin

Discussion Starter · #52 · 27 d ago

With the spark plug wire disconnected , and the starter turning the motor over, the readings are 10.39 volts and 9.45 volts. It just kinda oscillates between 10.39 and 9.45 as the starter turns the motor over

Montana

· #53 · 27 d ago

Backspin said:
With the spark plug wire disconnected , and the starter turning the motor over, the readings are 10.39 volts and 9.45 volts. It just kinda oscillates between 10.39 and 9.45 as the starter turns the motor over

Your saying that it does crank the engine over fast enough for it to start when you press the start button?

Backspin

Discussion Starter · #54 · 27 d ago

Montana said:
Your saying that it does crank the engine over fast enough for it to start when you press the start button?

With the plug wire connected , it will start the quad. But I would say it doesn't sound 100%. More like 85%.

And this is with ideal conditions. New, fully charged battery, cold. The no-start problem always happens after I run the bike for 20 minutes+.

So none of the volt readings are of concern eh

Backspin

Discussion Starter · #55 · 27 d ago (Edited)

The starter I bought wasn't OEM. But it also wasn't the cheapest available. I have always found that lubricating electrical stuff fixes a lot of problems. Maybe this starter is just a bit dry from the factory.

Is my motor a bit tight ? I really doubt that. I have never ran it low on oil. The thing was running smooth as a top in my most recent run. Lots of power in all ranges. No hesitations or anything. Idling fine.

Before taking the starter off to lube it, y'all might as well hear it. Here is the sound , turning the motor over w/ plug wire off Starter turning with plug wire off. Does this sound normal ?

Montana

· #56 · 27 d ago

Backspin said:
And this is with ideal conditions. New, fully charged battery, cold. The no-start problem always happens after I run the bike for 20 minutes+.

So none of the volt readings are of concern eh

Your 0.2 ohm reading across the relay contacts is high, so high that I would try another OEM relay (yes I would do that with my money if it were my bike). This would not be ideal but if it where me I'd take my volt ohm meter with me on a ride and start taking readings when it does not crank so you know where you have voltage and where you don't.

Reactions: 1

Backspin

Discussion Starter · #57 · 27 d ago

^ I will do that.

One thing I should mention. I did my one way starter bearing years ago. The one in it now doesn't sound perfect but it shouldn't be a problem either. Me and my brother both had 660's. We both wore out our starter bearings at the same time. Not once did they cause a no start or clicking. They just made a nasty clang when starting the bike. And eventually they stop engaging.

But I am watching other 660 problem videos and it is making me think about that baring a little. With the cover off , the baring free wheels perfectly. And when turning with a pry bar, it engages right away. But I am not completely ruling it out either.

Backspin

Discussion Starter · #58 · 27 d ago (Edited)

The starter clutch/bearing is just the only thing that hasn't been replaced in the system. That's why I am thinking about it

It was the starter itself that was stuck when I pulled the small side cover off. Not the baring. I pryed the starter shaft itself with a flat screw driver to unstuck it. What I'm clairifying is that it wasn't the clutch baring. Because that middle gear was removed.

Backspin

Discussion Starter · #59 · 26 d ago

I got the starter removed. While spinning it over with my fingers, it is inconsistent. There is some tight spots. Question is, was the starter defective or did something on the bike make it defective.

Some of you might disagree with this. But I am cracking the starter case loose just to break the seals on each end. And then Im giving in a diesel dunk. Plus I am dumping some clean engine oil in there. The warranty has long passed anyway. I need to free it up

I revived a Dewalt grinder this way.

Backspin

Discussion Starter · #60 · 26 d ago (Edited)

Testing the voltage to turn the starter after the lube up , 11.64 volts. It was 11.45 before. It sounds a bit better. But not way better

FWIW I went back and looked at the buy history of the starter on my wife's amazon. It was from 2020. The add doesn't exist anymore

Ohms of the starter 00.1 , as it should be

41 - 60 of 65 Posts