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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A broken exhaust stud lead to a new piston hotcam stage 2 w/ kibble kit. This is a pic of retainer. Looks as if it has sunk. Anyone seen this? Do the retainers look like kibblewhite retainers that come with the kit? One shop did the headwork and another put the atv back together. The shop that put it back together did not put the decompression mech back in. I found it in the old cam today. It ran for a hour and 40 minutes and craped out. one hour, oil change, 40 min. on the dunes craped out. I couldn't load pics so I put them on photobucket. http://s806.photobucket.com/albums/yy345/porschevandman/rappy valves/ Thanks
 

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A broken exhaust stud lead to a new piston hotcam stage 2 w/ kibble kit. This is a pic of retainer. Looks as if it has sunk. Anyone seen this? Do the retainers look like kibblewhite retainers that come with the kit? One shop did the headwork and another put the atv back together. The shop that put it back together did not put the decompression mech back in. I found it in the old cam today. It ran for a hour and 40 minutes and craped out. one hour, oil change, 40 min. on the dunes craped out. I couldn't load pics so I put them on photobucket. http://s806.photobucket.com/albums/yy345/porschevandman/rappy valves/ Thanks
Why did it quit running...........the pictures look normal to me.....
What led you to remove the inspection covers........are the holes in the cam where the decomp mechanism plugged...........
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Holes were not pluged. When I had trouble starting the bike I called the shop and asked them if they installed the decom mech right and not 180 degree off. They said they did so I got it started and ran it for a hour and changed the oil. Next day went to little sahara, after 40 min. ride it died all at once. It seemed like it lost compression. In the pics the retainer clip is futher down than the other two and the feeler gauge was having trouble reaching the gap. Left valve. Without the decompression installed for that time is there a good likleyhood of the cam having damage?
 

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Holes were not pluged. When I had trouble starting the bike I called the shop and asked them if they installed the decom mech right and not 180 degree off. They said they did so I got it started and ran it for a hour and changed the oil. Next day went to little sahara, after 40 min. ride it died all at once. It seemed like it lost compression. In the pics the retainer clip is futher down than the other two and the feeler gauge was having trouble reaching the gap. Left valve. Without the decompression installed for that time is there a good likleyhood of the cam having damage?
Okay, I see what you are taking about now, could be that the valve locks sheared or that the valve pushed through in to the retainer.......
I suggest you pull it apart and see what happened........
It is hard to see in the pictures but now that you mentioned the left valve being sunk, it was easier to compare................
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'll post when I get time to get it apart, hopefully this weekend. Should I be concerned about the cam or head since it was run for a couple of hours without the decompression mech? If so what should I look for? (blue color or discoloration) ? Thanks


Sure you can trust the goverment, just ask the indians
 

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I'll post when I get time to get it apart, hopefully this weekend. Should I be concerned about the cam or head since it was run for a couple of hours without the decompression mech? If so what should I look for? (blue color or discoloration) ? Thanks


Sure you can trust the goverment, just ask the indians
Check the cam journals for damage and the head in the same area.......
 

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Those pictures do look like kibble white springs and retainers. The locks also look installed right but it is hard to tell. You will simply need to pull it apart and most likely replace that retainer. Good thing is the valve didn't drop, just the spring broke so cross your fingers everything is okay when you pull the head.

Also the decomp pin might still be in the old cam as some cams come with new ones. If you pull the top of the head off you can tell right away if the decomp is in the cam, as you can see where the weights connect to the pin.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Shop pulled the head. Had a bent exhaust valve and well as the sunken keeper in a intake retainer. The head shop used the stock seats instead of the ones with kit. Why I do not know. The stock seats are alot thinner. Question is: Could the stock (thinner) seats cause the problem? (valves floated and hit piston?) Or the shop that put the head back on screwed something else up? Besides the decmpression mech they forgot to put in new cam. New parts are ordered. Just want to make sure Everything is done correct this time. Thanks
 

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I think I have seen something similar. I bought my raptor with a stage 2 cam and spring kit already installed so I can not be positive that’s what was in there but it sure looks the same as the two sets I have bought since. After 4 trips up north it stopped running, note the missing center intake valve. It dropped in and that was that. It seemed like the upper spring retainer allowed the valve keepers to slide through or the stock valves were too soft and lost dimension around the groove the keepers hold into. I lost the pictures of the valve stems but the keeper grove was enlarged and mashed. You can see all the valves slid down enough to allow the rocker arms to contact the spring retainers. I bought a new head and kibble white black diamond valves and have had no issues for the last 4 years.

This head was just rebuilt by KenZ and will be bolted back up this weekend. Hope it was not the heads fault, it sure seems like the stock valves where what deformed and allowed the valves to all slide down.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Picked up the bike this morning. At the shop right off listening to the bike I could hear a lot of valve noise. I told them I wanted to look at the exhaust valves lash since that was where the noise seemed to be coming from. I took the covers off ex valves and the mechinac turned the crank to tdc. The valves were loose I started to get pissed. then I looked at the crank postion and the mechanic had it lined up on the H instead of the I. I was more than pissed, loaded my bike and left. This made me think since this mech. and another mech. worked on the bike that they might have installed the cam with the crank at the H instead of the I.
Question 1
If the shop installed the cam with the H on the crank will the bike run and idle?
It fired up and seemed to be idling good, for the few seconds it ran at the shop.
I do not want to pull the cylinder head cover if I don't need to.
Question 2
Is there any way to check timing without removing the cylinder head cover?
Use a probe in sparkplug hole to see TDC and compair when it hits the I on crank?
Thanks Van
 

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stage 2 cam at hotcam lash specs is LOUD....Doubt the bike would run with the cam installed at "H." If I was you, Id pull the cover off and install the cam myself. We can walk you through it
 

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Cam installs are easy and just for personal reasons I'd try it myself. If you have any questions there are a ton of people on here that can help you through it.

to the OP - Were those stock valves in that head? Was it stock valve deformation that caused the valve to drop through?
 

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Picked up the bike this morning. At the shop right off listening to the bike I could hear a lot of valve noise. I told them I wanted to look at the exhaust valves lash since that was where the noise seemed to be coming from. I took the covers off ex valves and the mechinac turned the crank to tdc. The valves were loose I started to get pissed. then I looked at the crank postion and the mechanic had it lined up on the H instead of the I. I was more than pissed, loaded my bike and left. This made me think since this mech. and another mech. worked on the bike that they might have installed the cam with the crank at the H instead of the I.
Question 1
If the shop installed the cam with the H on the crank will the bike run and idle?
It fired up and seemed to be idling good, for the few seconds it ran at the shop.
I do not want to pull the cylinder head cover if I don't need to.
Question 2
Is there any way to check timing without removing the cylinder head cover?
Use a probe in sparkplug hole to see TDC and compair when it hits the I on crank?
Thanks Van
Most likely the valves and piston would collide with the timing set at the H rather then the I if the cam was set up there, and the engine would have serious damage if ti ran.................
Now checking the valve lash at the H would not really pose a problem nor would it be inaccurate..........
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks for the quick reply.
I'm going to adjust the valves tomorrow and see if that clears up the loud tapping.
It seems to run right. Fires up and idles good.
Stock valves besides the new one which was a kibble white black diamond trintyracing sent me. The guy at the machine shop said the valve groove looked fine where the keeper grabs.
I guess time will tell. I'll post tomoorow if I have time to work on it.
Thanks all
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I adjusted the valves. Found source of valve noise. Intake valves were so loose I could fit my three biggest feeler blades stacked together. That is .087 or 2.215 mm. total. Thats 14.5 times the stock .006 .15mm. intake specs. I called the shop and haven't heard back.
Got the valves all adjusted, tightened adjusters, rotated crank and checked again. all good, when i hooked up the gas line it started raining. I ran it for a minute and it sounded good. Nice tapping.
I was going to ride it for a hour, making sure I didn't hear any valve noise. Then check valves again after it cools off.
I have concerns about the loose adjusters.
I picture hitting the floor with a hammer that is one inch from the floor, and then I picture hitting the floor with the hammer 14.5 inches from the floor. It scares me. I looked at the retainer/keepers when I adjusted the valves and all looks good. I guess time will tell.

Hopefully Weather and time will let me ride this weekend.

Ps What is the noise when you shut the bike off? Couldn't remember if it was the decompress mech or the starter clutch. Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks for posting the pics. of my bike"s intake valves.
The first time I got the bike from shop it had valve noise. Not as bad as the second time but I still noticed it before I left. They said it should be louder because of cam and where standing beside the bike listening to it with me. I though all was good. Next day I went to my parents farm to break it in. Had trouble starting it. Called and asked if they my have messed up the decompress mech.which they denied (they actually didn't install the lever, spring, or pin.) I finally got the bike to start using a car battery. Ran it for a hour and changed the oil for our trip to sand dunes "little sahara Waynoka OK" the next day. It only ran for about 40 minutes in OK. I'm thinking now that the valve being so loose caused the rockers to hammer keepers through retainers.
Does that sound right?
The valves were loose when I started looking for what happen. Bad loose, even the two unsunk valves were 10 times the gap.
It make me think that the shop possibally set valves at .06 instead of .006?
Not once but twice.
Any thoughts on situation?
keep the dirty side down
 

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anytime bud! You should of asked way back when LOL. Just jokin...
 

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Thanks for posting the pics. of my bike"s intake valves.
The first time I got the bike from shop it had valve noise. Not as bad as the second time but I still noticed it before I left. They said it should be louder because of cam and where standing beside the bike listening to it with me. I though all was good. Next day I went to my parents farm to break it in. Had trouble starting it. Called and asked if they my have messed up the decompress mech.which they denied (they actually didn't install the lever, spring, or pin.) I finally got the bike to start using a car battery. Ran it for a hour and changed the oil for our trip to sand dunes "little sahara Waynoka OK" the next day. It only ran for about 40 minutes in OK. I'm thinking now that the valve being so loose caused the rockers to hammer keepers through retainers.
Does that sound right?
The valves were loose when I started looking for what happen. Bad loose, even the two unsunk valves were 10 times the gap.
It make me think that the shop possibally set valves at .06 instead of .006?
Not once but twice.
Any thoughts on situation?
keep the dirty side down
If they failed to install the decomp mechanism, you may have damage to the cam and journal area of the head, this in itself will give you extra valve clearance...........the decomp mechanism needs to be there to force oil into critical areas of the cam journals, if it isnt it just flows out of the cam into the timing chain area........
 

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Are the pictures of your valves from the resent fix? That far left upper spring retainer does not look great. I am not sure the best way to determine this with out pulling the head but if you are having trouble keeping that valve in spec for the gap between the rocker and the tip of the valve stem it might be sinking and that valve retainer needs to be replaced. When my valve dropped I could see deformation to the inner diameter of the upper spring retainer so I replaced my whole set.
 
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