What is the best filter I can buy to get the most horsepower?
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Guys, I have now spent a few years testing all kinds of air cleaners on all sorts of quads. Air cleaners give you a power gain, but the gain versus the money spent on the air cleaner is sometimes a bit of a disappointment.
I have tested a few quads on the dyno, with different air cleaners, and between a good stock air cleaner and a aftermarket unit, you struggle to get 1HP gains. The best I have seen was a 2HP gain, with a DS650, changing the stock paper filter for a foam type. Some stock air cleaners are very restrictive, so when you change them out for an aftermarket unit, they give you a very noticeable gain.
From spending years now on the dyno, I found that a nice big foam air cleaner has the ability to make the same power as a K&N. I struggle to see any differences between a K&N and foam type pro design air cleaner on for example a raptor 660 or 700R.
Bikes with the same setup on my dyno all run within 0.5 to 1 HP of each other, unless there is something wrong with the quad, no matter what air cleaner the owner runs.
An air cleaner is something you add, after you added a good exhaust system, and have the carb/fuel injection set up correctly.
I have tested a few quads on the dyno, with different air cleaners, and between a good stock air cleaner and a aftermarket unit, you struggle to get 1HP gains. The best I have seen was a 2HP gain, with a DS650, changing the stock paper filter for a foam type. Some stock air cleaners are very restrictive, so when you change them out for an aftermarket unit, they give you a very noticeable gain.
From spending years now on the dyno, I found that a nice big foam air cleaner has the ability to make the same power as a K&N. I struggle to see any differences between a K&N and foam type pro design air cleaner on for example a raptor 660 or 700R.
Bikes with the same setup on my dyno all run within 0.5 to 1 HP of each other, unless there is something wrong with the quad, no matter what air cleaner the owner runs.
An air cleaner is something you add, after you added a good exhaust system, and have the carb/fuel injection set up correctly.
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Get a GYTR, Pro Flow, or Trinity. A good price on GYTR can be found here http://www.yamahasportsplaza.com Mod Quad just looks like a K&N intake with an Outerwear and a sticker, you would be better off with the other three. Here is a comparision of the K&N intake and a pro flow, also a good tutorial, http://www.raptorforum.com/index.php?topic=3347.0
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I have done ALOT of Dyno testing with the LTR450. With this testing i have designed a new intake/air box eliminator for the LTR450 that makes a DYNO PROVE 3 HP over the stock air box, filter and lid off. I tested the trinity, pro design and mod quad filter and adaptor setups for the LTR450. NON of them made any more HP then the stock one. So I am going to use all of the stuff i have learned to design something similar for the Raptor. I will not have anything soon, but if my tests show a 2 or more HP gain i will bring it to the market. My LTR intake kit uses a VERY large K&N style air filter, Oversized billet intake ring, water repellent outerwear and an aluminum mounting bracket. The great thing about my kit is that it is all bolt on ...... meaning you do not have to hack up your air box to install it. I know its alittle off topic, but it is true alot of these kits on the market DO NOT make any more HP then stock. Here are a couple things i test before designing a intake kit.
1. Does the bike need more air to make more HP?
2. If it does then ...... how big of a filter will fit in the stock air box?
3. Is the stock air box big enough to fit the filter size need to make more HP?
4. How can i creat more velocity?
I know the LTR needed all of the above. Does the Raptor 700? Not sure , but i am willing to bet yes. I have seen the filters used on the 700. Just to give you an idea the filter and intake ring i use on the LTR450 is twice the size of the after market filters i have seen being used on the 700.
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1. Does the bike need more air to make more HP?
2. If it does then ...... how big of a filter will fit in the stock air box?
3. Is the stock air box big enough to fit the filter size need to make more HP?
4. How can i creat more velocity?
I know the LTR needed all of the above. Does the Raptor 700? Not sure , but i am willing to bet yes. I have seen the filters used on the 700. Just to give you an idea the filter and intake ring i use on the LTR450 is twice the size of the after market filters i have seen being used on the 700.
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Mine will be more no question as i cannot compete with parts that really have not desgn time or dyno testing......BUT mine ........ if it is made WILL MAKE MORE HP or i wont even bother making it. Mine will include a water repellent outerwear. These water repellent outerwears are about $10.00 more then standard outerwears and they flow just as much air as the non water repellent outerwears. My filter will be larger, it will not be a generic K&N and mine will also include an aluminum mounting bracket that will eliminate the air box. If i can fit a big enough filter in without removing the stock air box then it will retail for about $140.00. If i have to include a bracket then it will be about $180.00. These parts will not be generic mass produced parts. They will be high quality parts that make HP and fit right.
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Not many people want to remove their airbox but if there's more power to be had that's where it comes from. The filter surface is exposed all around w/o restriction. You could get the same power gain with any of the 3 venturi-style intakes just by cutting out the airbox, they all have the same inner diameter to fit the stock intake boot to the throtle body. I wouldn't do it, but a hill-shooter might.
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Well that is not entirely true ...... with the LTR 450 my intake and filter design is NOT the same diameters as the stock intake, pro design intake, mod quad intake or any other intake ring for that matter. On the LTR you will pick up about 1 HP by removing the air box ..... with any of the other intakes installed. With my intake and fliter combo you gain 3.25 HP with the box removed. Now as i said i have not tested or designed the 700 intake, but there is alot more to it then just cutting out the air box. From the photos i have seen i maybe able to get a much larger filter in the stock box, create more velocity and make more HP. Its all talk for now .........
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The intakes all neck down to fit the stock intake boot, so unless you're changing the boot itself you can't fit a larger one inside it (just the outside filter mounting diameter). I guess we'd have to see a comparison including the other intakes with the airbox removed to get an accurate comparison of the intake adapters themselves. Some of the available filters are pretty friendly with the sides of the airbox as it is, and of course removing the airbox would allow you to run a larger filter on any of them. I'm just pointing out what a fair comparison would involve because not a lot of people want to remove their airbox so it'd be apples to oranges if that were the case. But we all want to see the results, no question about it - I'm not dissing the concept, just practicing healthy skepticism! 
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Well i disagree ...... all of this will depend on ...... IF ...... the engine needs more air and ...... IF ..... the engine will make more HP with more air velocity. So you are right all the adaptors will have to neck down to the stock intake boot. So if my adaptor necks from a 6 1/2 down to the stock 3 1/4 and other neckl from about 4 1/2 down to 3 1/4 .... do you think that my intake will create velocity? If the engine needs more air and i can design a larger filter to fit in the stock air box do you think it will make more HP? If i have a filter design that creates velocity do you think it will out perform a standard K&N style filter? Well the awnser to all the above questions is YES. Bottom line alot of people will sacrafice the air box for 3 HP. Maybe it would not be the ticket for you, but it is not like compairing apples and oranges? Take the box off, add my intake and make HP or leave it on and be happy. With my filter disign and water repellent outerwear i am using most people will be fine with no air box UNLESS ridding in water or mud a majority of the time.
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My apples and oranges comment is in reference to comparing one intake with the airbox to another system w/o the airbox. It also refers to my comment that if you remove the airbox any of the systems can use a larger filter so that would be a necessary component to a valid comparison. As an added point, an LTR is not a Raptor 700, so that'd be apples to oranges, too, for that matter (once again, I'm not claiming that your concept isn't valid). I don't know what it is that you're disagreeing with since I'm only pointing out the factors required to make it a valid comparison, since anyone can remove their airbox and use a larger filter on any intake. I never told you not to bother to machine a demo model, I just said post a valid comparison between the intakes. The larger outside diameter of the venturi would help smooth the transition from the larger filter into the intake (which is 66mm, or 2.6 inch, not 3.25 inch), but velocity is further created at the 44mm (1.75 inch) throttle body and the ports. The volume of the entire intake decreases downstream, thereby increasing velocity. My point that anyone can fit a larger filter or remove their airbox is valid, so a comparison that didn't address that wouldn't be valid. You shouldn't take it so personally, and also re-read what my posts actually say because you're putting words in my mouth and that detracts from your credibility. I don't have anything to sell, and I never said people shouldn't remove their airbox, I simply said not many people want to. But you don't have a product to test yet, so why not wait until you have a valid comparison, but stop with the claims that the intake will be "larger" : the outside of it can be a meter diameter, the inside will still have to neck down to 2.6". That's the kind of hype that other mfr's use to pretend that the intake is actully larger when the real point of a larger filter mounting diameter is to allow room for a venturi effect as it necks down to the stock intake size (filter size itself is independent of mounting diameter but is obviously a useful way to reduce pressure drop at the filter). Another kind of hype is to claim to have a new filter "design" when in reality it's a standard fabric/wire mesh filter from an existing mfr's line. If you re-read my posts you'll see that you're putting words in my mouth and then disagreeing with things I haven't said. If you can't respond to the actual comments it doesn't make any worthwhile point to respond at all, just makes you look less credible, because most readers will find my comments valid. Build it and let us know the results, I'd be more than happy to see positive returns and I certainly haven't claimed that a different intake can't make more power, just that the others would also make more power with the other factors (larger filter, larger airbox) so any comparison needs to take that into account.
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The biggest restriction in the 700R intake system is the factory back fire screen.
That is why you see such a dramatic increase when you add a after marked filter & adapter & an EFI controller and tune it properly. There you see about 4+ RWHP gain on the dyno, at least I did on my 700R when I was running the stock exhaust with the phoenix spark arrestor and added the PCIII and GYT-R filter and adapter and ran with no lid.
Even though you maintain the same diameter at the throttle body inlet with a properly designed intake runner that increases in diameter towards the filter end and a larger filter along with eliminating the air box you will gain flow and velocity if the engine is modded to handle the increased air flow. I believe you will increase the RWHP over and above what is avalible now in the way of filters and adapters. I fully intend to prove this on my bored and stroked 780R I will dyno it with the GYT-R filter and adapter that is on it less the airbox and then with the new intake tube and larger filter and tune for it. We will see what the difference is on my machine. I don't really see it doing much for a 3 mod bike though. I intend on doing this sometime this summer as I prepare my bike to run the 4 stroke challenge series next winter.
That is why you see such a dramatic increase when you add a after marked filter & adapter & an EFI controller and tune it properly. There you see about 4+ RWHP gain on the dyno, at least I did on my 700R when I was running the stock exhaust with the phoenix spark arrestor and added the PCIII and GYT-R filter and adapter and ran with no lid.
Even though you maintain the same diameter at the throttle body inlet with a properly designed intake runner that increases in diameter towards the filter end and a larger filter along with eliminating the air box you will gain flow and velocity if the engine is modded to handle the increased air flow. I believe you will increase the RWHP over and above what is avalible now in the way of filters and adapters. I fully intend to prove this on my bored and stroked 780R I will dyno it with the GYT-R filter and adapter that is on it less the airbox and then with the new intake tube and larger filter and tune for it. We will see what the difference is on my machine. I don't really see it doing much for a 3 mod bike though. I intend on doing this sometime this summer as I prepare my bike to run the 4 stroke challenge series next winter.
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That is my point ..... WHY have companies have not done this? If a larger filter makes more HP then why are other companies not offering larger filters? I think other companies are taking so called Manufacture line products and just slapping them in a box and calling it good. I currently see nothing as far as intakes that impress me. I also think i can make an intake that will make more HP. I as would many i am sure would love to know how much ... IF ANY HP can be gained by removing the air box? So i am not going to get into it. I need to find these things out before anything can be done .....
1. Does the engine needs more air?
2. Will the engine will make more HP with more air velocity?
3. If the engine needs more air can design a larger filter to fit in the stock air box or will the air box need to be removed to create the Maximum amount of HP?
I appreciate the assumtion but it is not correct. My filters are custom made to my specs. They are not from a so call manufactures line. I can have just about any shape and size made. I dont have a raptor so my 3.25 statement was just for reference so people could understand what i ment. I guess it worked? So i am not creating any hype. Once my product is done i wont need hype i will have dyno test to prove or disprove what i want to do.
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1. Does the engine needs more air?
2. Will the engine will make more HP with more air velocity?
3. If the engine needs more air can design a larger filter to fit in the stock air box or will the air box need to be removed to create the Maximum amount of HP?
I appreciate the assumtion but it is not correct. My filters are custom made to my specs. They are not from a so call manufactures line. I can have just about any shape and size made. I dont have a raptor so my 3.25 statement was just for reference so people could understand what i ment. I guess it worked? So i am not creating any hype. Once my product is done i wont need hype i will have dyno test to prove or disprove what i want to do.
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I don't see how RaptorRandy's comments disputed anything but the words you put in my mouth, in fact we are all in agreement on the basic concept. What you call "my assumption" is all you, not me. As far as filter size, other mfr's use what will fit in the airbox w/o interference. As far as your claim of a "special" filter, I'm going to go out on a limb and predict it'll be a standard fabric/wire mesh type designed to your spec. The "hype" I referred to is not related to your hp claim since you don't give one. Any intelligent person reading these posts knows that putting words in someone's mouth and then attacking those words is a cheap rhetorical gambit. All I asked for was a fair comparison and you got all bent out of shape. How many times do I have to repeat that I agree with the concept to stop you from disagreeing with what I never said? The more you refer to the basic concept as if I disagreed with it, the more credibility you lose. My posts are unedited. Let me just say I hope you get more power with it, I just want to see a fair comparison for it's own sake, I'm not afflicted with any personal emotional attachment to the parts I currently run, so I'm not the type who thinks I'm being dissed when someone says they can make more power, on the contrary I'm all for it, but like you said, the results speak for themselves, so let's not make it personal by putting words in other people's mouths. As long as you have a fair comparison I've got no problem with marketing your product for what it does. My beef is with mfr's and vendors who hype the features of their product in a misleading manner or make inflated hp claims or unfair comparisons. If your intake makes more power for my application and uses the airbox (that's just how I want it for myself) I'll get in line to buy it. Obviously it'll do more for a heavily modified motor or w/o an airbox but that's a given. Nobody's picking a fight with you.
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I typed my reply before his post, but he entered his post before mine. So the Thats my point was to you. I did not and do not intend to put any words in your mouth? I am far from bent out of shape. I have people all day long trying to tell me their input of how a part should be built or designed ..... some points are good and some i feel are not.
1. MY FILTERS ARE CUSTOM MADE NOT OFF THE SHELF FROM OTHER MANUFACTURS
2. MY INTAKE RING .... IF MANUFACTURED WILL HAVE AN OVERSIZED FILTER MOUNTING SURFACE TO CREATE VELOCITY
3. IF I CAN CREATE ENOUGH HP WITH THE STOCK BOX THEN I WILL GO THAT ROUTE IF NOT I WILL BE DITCHING THE AIR BOX AND MANUFACTURING A BRACKET FOR THE RING AND THE FILTER.
Maybe my posts are being misinterpreted by you? I am not mad ...... this is an open forum for debate. I want to make HP. I want to find what it will take to do it. The current intakes available dont get the job done IMO.
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1. MY FILTERS ARE CUSTOM MADE NOT OFF THE SHELF FROM OTHER MANUFACTURS
2. MY INTAKE RING .... IF MANUFACTURED WILL HAVE AN OVERSIZED FILTER MOUNTING SURFACE TO CREATE VELOCITY
3. IF I CAN CREATE ENOUGH HP WITH THE STOCK BOX THEN I WILL GO THAT ROUTE IF NOT I WILL BE DITCHING THE AIR BOX AND MANUFACTURING A BRACKET FOR THE RING AND THE FILTER.
Maybe my posts are being misinterpreted by you? I am not mad ...... this is an open forum for debate. I want to make HP. I want to find what it will take to do it. The current intakes available dont get the job done IMO.
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The horse is dead....
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